Sudden Loss to a Motorcycle Accident

00:09 - Maya (Host)

Hey guys, welcome back to the Surviving Siblings podcast. Today I have, of course, another surviving sibling with me, and her name is Chelsea. Chelsea, welcome to the show, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, chelsea, I'm really excited to tell your story. This is a big year for you. This is 10 years into your grief journey after losing your sister, brittany. So tell us a little bit about Brittany, tell us about your family dynamic, your relationships, and then, of course, we'll get into how you lost your sister.

00:40 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, sure, I can't believe that it's going to be 10 years this year, which seems like so much time. But when I start thinking about it and going back to the day it happened, it feels like it was just yesterday and it's a very strange feeling that I'm sure probably a lot of people can relate to, where it feels like it just happened yesterday. But it's been forever since I've seen them and talked to them and talk to them. But yeah, so I grew up with just my sister and me. She was my older sister and she, you know, it was just the two of us and then my parents and they divorced when I was fairly young and the divorce was. It was pretty bad, it was pretty volatile. They did not get along for a very long time. So in a lot of ways it was me and my sister kind of looking out for each other and taking care of each other. Luckily, as we got older and time went on, my parents when we were in high school and going into college, my parents were able to develop a friendship which we never thought we would ever see happen. So when we were older they would come visit us together. We would do family holidays and stuff together. They actually would hang out, sometimes just the two of them as friends.

01:51

But I grew up in Massachusetts, western Mass, and my sister and I both moved to New York City for college. So she was two years older than me but only a year ahead of me in school, so she went one year before me and it's funny. I can remember like that one year that she had moved to New York and I was still here was I was so miserable without her and I was like I'm going to do anything I can to move to New York City, I will go to any college I can to get there. And I was. I mean, I think those were like the best years of my life when I just moved to New York City and I was living with my sister.

02:28

I think a lot of people I really idolize my older sister. She was just everything. She was so unbelievably smart and charismatic and funny and kind and caring. We got along extremely well. We had, you know, a couple years of time where, like you know, I was the annoying little sister and she didn't want me around as much. You know, probably like in middle school and we'd squabble and stuff. But really like from high school on, we just we so rarely fought. We had the same friend group, you know, in college and as adults we were together all the time. We lived together our entire lives. I think up until the year before she died I moved in with my boyfriend, but other than that, we were, we were always, always together. We were, I mean, we were really like twins in a lot of ways. We were, you know, extremely, extremely close. Most people that knew us like I've never seen two sisters as close yeah, it was a child.

03:30 - Maya (Host)

The Chelsea and Brittany show yes, yes, it was yeah, that's amazing yeah so you guys I mean again, I connect with your story too because and I'm sure a lot of you guys do as well um, I'm a product of divorce as well. I get another theme. I think that's happening a lot this season and it's interesting and that's really a beautiful gift that your parents were able to become friends later. And I think there's again a lot of common themes in your story already that a lot of us can connect with. And I think it's interesting too that your sister was like oh, you're kind of the annoying younger sister and then as we get older, our relationships just evolve and change, and so I think that's cool that you were living with her up until a year before she passed.

04:12 - Chelsea (Host)

That's really cool. Yeah, no, it was. It was great. We, yeah, and she really, I mean, she took care of me so much Like she. Definitely she taught me how to be an adult and it's it's's ironic because I was always more of the wild one. I didn't do as well in school. I was a little bit more of a partier. My sister was extremely smart, very studious, you know, very risk adverse, and she was always kind of watching out for me. She was always worried about me, what I was going to get into, what I was doing. So it's just it's it's very, very cruel irony that she's the one that died young.

04:46 - Maya (Host)

Yeah, another theme that happens and I'm sure a lot of you guys can connect with this. So tell us kind of walk us up to this horrible tragedy that happened. Tell us a little bit about what's going on with your family. At that time and again, it was 10 years ago, so tell us what was happening then.

05:06 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, so at the time my sister and I were both living in New York Parents again, I think. I said we're in Western Mass, they live separately but they live about five minutes apart from each other and my sister had just graduated from law school. So she had known since she was like 11 years old that she wanted to be an attorney and she did mock trial in high school. She was amazing at it. She worked at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office.

05:32

After she graduated from college she went to Brooklyn Law School. She had worked her whole life to become an attorney. She had just graduated that past May and she was about to start her first job as an attorney for a very prestigious international law firm and she's really excited but she's really nervous. She knew she's been working very long hours and doing a lot of different things, but you know she had done work with people seeking asylum. She did a lot with undocumented immigrants. She was a fluent Spanish speaker, so she was just really excited for that and that's another. You know there's a lot of really tragic parts to this story, but that you know. She was killed a week before she was supposed to start the career she had worked her entire life for.

06:18 - Maya (Host)

Wow, yeah, that's crazy. So where are we in the timeline right now? So, yeah, we're in what month? In 2014?.

06:27 - Chelsea (Host)

So this was August 28, 2014. So she had pretty much had been off all summer and was supposed to start her job in the fall, and I it was Labor Day weekend so we had planned to go down to Massachusetts to visit my parents for Labor Day weekend. To go down to Massachusetts to visit my parents for Labor Day weekend, and because my sister had more time off than I did, she went down a couple days before I did. So we had all these plans for my parents and the day that they died was a Thursday, august 28. And I was working until about you know, 845 that night and I was supposed to drive down with my boyfriend at the time. We were going to drive down late that night to Massachusetts and spend the weekend there, and so my sister and I had been there for two days spending time with my family.

07:17

So I was walking out of work. I worked in Manhattan, on 20th Street. I lived in Brooklyn, so I was going to take the train home, then get my car, get my boyfriend go to Massachusetts. So I had just left work and I was walking down 20th Street and I got a phone call from a number I didn't recognize, but it was a 413 number, which is the area where my parents live. So I thought maybe it was like my dad's work number. I didn't have saved or something.

07:47

So I pick up and the person on the phone says this is the captain of the East Hampton Police Department. Are you in New York or are you in Massachusetts? And it's funny because you get this call and you're like this, this can't be good. But you're trying to rationalize, like there's, there's a reason, there's, there's some logical explanation why they keep calling me. So I'm thinking like maybe my parents broke down or something they're trying to figure out if I'm close and I can come get them.

08:17

And I said, well, I'm in New York but I'm on my way to Massachusetts. But you know, he asked how long before I was there and I said I probably won't be there for about five hours. I'm gonna get in pretty late. And he said, okay, this really can't wait that long. I have to tell you this over the phone. And I'm still like kind of of two minds, like part of me is going like oh my god, this is, this is bad. Like this is the phone call that everybody dreads. And I'm still trying to think of some rational reason for this and my sort of last ditch like thought is I'm like maybe there's a warrant out for my arrest in Massachusetts. I know I didn't do anything that I can think of, but that's got to be what this is.

08:58 - Maya (Host)

I have a warrant, I have to laugh at that, because you're describing getting the call so well, Chelsea, like so well, because our mind goes to these really crazy, goes to the worst case scenario and then also goes to this like weird thing about us. We're like is this, you know? So this is it's. There's something on me Like, is there something wrong? Like because, yeah, you would rather that be true than something really horrific. So what a great way to describe this. So yeah, so he tells you.

09:31 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, he says there's been a terrible accident with your father and your sister on your dad's motorcycle. And I said, are they okay? And he said no, they didn't make it. And I was just, I mean, you're just walking out of work like any normal day and walking down the street. I've walked out a hundred times, I'm doing the same things, I've done a hundred times and you just get this phone call, just everything changes in a second and I just and again. It's. It's been 10 years, but it makes me so emotional to talk about.

10:00

I remember that phone call, like it was yesterday. I remember exactly what he said. I remember, know, and I just I just hit the sidewalk. I was just screaming I can't even say I was sobbing or screaming and I was like I don't believe this, I don't believe this, I don't believe this. And he immediately was like please don't drive, promise me, you're not going to drive. I was like I'm, I'm on the street, I don't even have my car with me, like, of course, I'm not gonna drive, right. And then he was like who else needs to know about this? And I said you mean, my mom doesn't know. And he said no, nobody knows. You're the first person we've been able to get in touch with. We have not been able to find any of your family um because how did they, how did they get your number?

10:48 - Maya (Host)

chelsea, was it the phone? You were emergency contact. I'm always curious about that and I know a lot of the listeners are as well yeah, I actually still don't know, to this day, how they got my number.

10:58 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, I know that, um, I know that they went in my sister's wallet and they they found she had had her boyfriend's number that she had broken up with like six, seven years prior. They called him and they didn't tell him, they were just asking if he had more, you know, information of family. You know they went to my dad's apartment but of course nobody was there. I think they asked one of his neighbors, right, was there.

11:23 - Speaker 3

I think they asked one of his neighbors and you, thank you. We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings podcast. I'm your host, maya Roffler. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor, are you feeling lost in your grief journey? Perhaps even somehow in this kind of wild. They got your information because you're absolutely right, they can't tell a boyfriend

12:50 - Maya (Host)

or it has to be family.

12:52 - Chelsea (Host)

So, yeah, well, wow, yeah, and I don't know I know that whoever gave them my number must have told them she lives in new york, but if her sister's in massachusetts, so I I don't know.

13:04 - Maya (Host)

I know that they couldn't get into either my sister or my dad's phone, so it was locked.

13:10 - Speaker 3

I think they could see messages on the screen but they couldn't get into them.

13:14 - Maya (Host)

So yeah, I don't know how they found me wild. And so, yeah, I said my mom doesn't know, and they asked for my mom's address so that they could go tell her in person journey.

13:26 - Speaker 3

and I said don't call her, let us tell her, which I was sort of even in the moment was like click the link in the show notes to get your copy, or that she's gonna have police show up in her house and tell her that her daughter's dead, or you can also find more show information.

13:40 - Maya (Host)

I remember thinking I hope whatever my mom is doing right now is like the happiest moment of her life, and I hope that whatever it is right now merchandise for

13:44 - Chelsea (Host)

surviving siblings like you, and more resources and support, I hope whatever my mom is doing right now is the happiest moment of her life and I hope that. Whatever it is right now, I hope it's so good, because I just know that it's about to be so bad. And it was interesting even during this entire phone call there was a part of my brain that was like wow, you're handling this so well. And I was. I mean, I was laying on the sidewalk screaming like lying next to a car in New.

14:10

York City. And I was like you're handling this so well, because I think that I truly thought if I ever got a call like that, I would die, I would stop breathing, like my heart would stop. I wouldn't. I wouldn't even be able to give them my mom's address. I was so surprised at the moment I could even tell her where she, you know, tell them where she lived, and and so you know, they said they were going to send an officer to my mom's house.

14:34

And then I was like okay, but like like what do I do? Like I'm, I'm alone, I'm, I'm on the street, like I, I need help. And it was not even occurring to me to like hang up the phone and call someone. It felt like I needed to stay on with the police. But I was like I can't. I can't hail a cab, I can't get on the subway. Like what do I do? And I saw that there was a police station like half a block from where I was and I was about to just get up and walk to the police station because that was all I could think of. I was like I'll just hand them my cell phone. They can talk officer to officer, they'll give me a ride home and they'll figure out what to do. So once I was about to do that, these two girls walked up to me. They were like are you okay?

15:23

and so on your way to go to this police station yeah, girls, yeah, I had kind of just stood up and um, and they came up to me like are you okay? And um, and I I just said my family's dead. I just found out my family's dead and I think I handed one of them the phone and so one of them lived across the street. I guess she had heard me crying from her apartment, so she came down at the same time this other girl they didn't know each other this other girl had also heard like somebody is is really in distress out here. So I think they were trying to find where I was, but I again like lying down so they couldn't see me. So when they found me, she was like you know, come up to my apartment, like let me call somebody for you. So I told her to call my boyfriend at the time and I remember she brought me into her apartment. It was just, I said, like tunnel vision, I couldn't even. It was like I couldn't even see, I didn't even, you know, know where I was, know what was happening. And so I sat at the apartment and I waited for my boyfriend to get there.

16:30

And then we went back to Brooklyn and are still going to Massachusetts, just under very, very different circumstances now. Circumstances now, and I think on the way there I don't know if I called the police back to see if they'd gotten to my mom's yet but I remember that my mom got on the phone with me and she was just screaming, just you know, same as I was just screaming like, oh my God, brittany and my sister had a very serious boyfriend that she lived with, so I think my mom had also called him. So we went boyfriend that she lived with, so I think my mom had also called him. So we went and got him and picked him up and and then jumped to Massachusetts and I just remember the whole drive. We're just, I mean, we're just crying, we're silent except for crying, like nobody was saying anything.

17:15 - Maya (Host)

What do you say? What do you say Right. What do you say? So it's your boyfriend and her boyfriend and you guys are going in your boyfriend's driving as you guys go to Massachusetts. Oh, thank god for him.

17:26 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, yeah, no, I mean he, he really we're. You know we're not together, we haven't been together in a long time, but, uh, we were together for at least probably two or three years after they died and and he was so there for me, like I will always be thankful to him. He really he was there for me with everything that happened, with the aftermath, and and he was, you know, physically there, emotionally there, like everything. You know. We we ended on great terms and I will always be so thankful to him for for everything that he did.

17:56 - Maya (Host)

That's amazing, chelsea, okay. So, we're going to talk about that in a little bit, because I get questions all the time from people. You know what can my partner's not understanding me or my partner's not helping me. So I definitely want to dig into that as we kind of talk about what happened post.

18:09

So you guys are on this like five hour car ride or long car ride and what? What happens next? Do you go to your mom's house Like what's, what's the plan? This is always the time that's kind of just a fog and really difficult because you can't even believe what's happened.

18:23 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, I mean, like my memory of the car ride was it was probably about three hours. I remember it like it was five minutes because it was just, you know, just sitting there and in you know, just in shock, just total shock, like it's real, I mean it's.

18:37

It's crazy how much you really can't process and really cannot believe what's happening and you know and so, yeah, so we got to my mom's house and late, and her best friend was over at that point and I think my mom and I just, you know, just held each other and cried for so long and then my mom asked me if I had called Emma. And Emma was my sister's best friend from like childhood and you know we had known her since we were 11 years old. She's at my house every weekend, you know, really really close friend of my sister's, and she's like I think you should call Emma. I was like I don't want to call anybody, I don't want to tell anybody, I don't want this to be real. If I start calling people, I start telling them it's real. You know, I don't want to it. She's like a really, and it's funny because everybody handles grief so differently. My mom was like we need to call everybody and I was like I don't want to call anybody. So but I get.

19:34 - Maya (Host)

I get both of your perspectives right. I'm sure you guys are like well, I would be like Chelsea or I would be like her mom, because it was I. I can I go back to my sudden loss experience as well? And it's just like I didn't want to tell anybody, but I knew I needed to tell people, and you're right. You said that so well. If you tell people, it starts to become real, Because I remember when it became real for me I finally posted on Facebook.

20:01

I was like look, my brother's not going to make it. And so I mean I look back on that now and I'm like why did I wait like two days to post that, like he was never making it? Like why did I? You know what I mean? But it's because of our brains all process it differently. Some people want to just go ahead and say it and like maybe that's their way of processing. Some of us hold on to it somewhere in the middle maybe.

20:28 - Chelsea (Host)

It's interesting. It really is. Yeah, it is, it's.

20:29

I mean, it's so crazy how we all can have such different grief journey, such different responses to grief you know I think that's something my mom and I have have struggled in in our relationship is that we tend to have very different responses to grief. You know, the whole time, and you know, things that are really healing for her are really traumatizing for me, and things that I want to do don't feel right to her. And so when it comes to, you know, celebrating anniversaries and you know birthdays and stuff, it's been tough. You know we've had to work really hard to get to a place where we you know both of us can feel like our needs are being met, which is difficult, and it's also, you know, I've. Now I've lost, you know, my father, my sister. They're the people that I really went to when I needed something. They're always the people that I went to when something was wrong.

21:30 - Maya (Host)

They're gone, and now my mom is also in this profound state of grief, like she can't just be there to support me, I can't just be there to support her. So it's very difficult and I think you know different family dynamics and everything that comes up can make things really really hard. So, well said and yes, a lot of us can, can relate, and definitely, oh no two people in my family grieve the same.

21:40

I know I get you and I know you guys do as well, and so we'll get into that, and in just a little bit too, because I'm interested to hear the different you know different things that work for you and different things that have worked for your mom, because I think that'll be really helpful too. So did you call Emma, did you call her friend, or what was your next move?

21:57 - Chelsea (Host)

I did. I did call her and I was crying so hard she could not understand what I was saying and like three times she was like what she was like, chelsea, I'm so sorry, I don't know what you're saying at all. And so I handed the phone to my mom's friend who told her and then, you know, she gave the phone back to me and, like you know, I could tell like she was trying so hard not to like react for me. You know she was like it's okay, it's okay, it's gonna be okay. And I was like it's not, no, it's not gonna be okay, um, and of course I don't, you know, I don't fall to her saying that at all, like nobody, there's no right thing to say. You know, when something like that happens, there's plenty of wrong things to say, as I'm sure we've all heard them, but there really isn't, you know, a right thing to say um and yeah, and so then, oh, and actually the part that I did forget was when I was at that girl's apartment waiting for my boyfriend to get there. She asked me do you know what happened? And I said, well, no, I just, I just know that they, they died on my dad's motorcycle, which, um, yes, motorcycles are dangerous, like I'm.

23:05

I'm not going to argue with anybody on that. Yes, motorcycles are dangerous Like I'm not going to argue with anybody on that. If you get hit on a motorcycle you have very little protection. But my father was so safe, like he had been riding motorcycles since he was 16 years old. He was so safe Like he, you know, especially with my sister on his bike, like they maybe took like one, you know, drive on the motorcycle a year, like in like a country road we live in like the suburbs and with, like you know, it felt like a very low risk activity, right, and it's you know. And I was like it's really hard for me to believe that my dad would have just done something you know to to cause this. And so she's like, well, do you want to call the police back and try and get more information? And I don't know that I really did, because it's also like they're dead, like at this point I don't, I'm not worried about the story, like there's so much in that moment in time. Yes, you're not really.

23:55 - Maya (Host)

It's like you're trying to get your mind and your heart and soul around the fact that they're gone. Yeah, I feel like that comes later, right when you start to question more. But did you call them? Did you take her advice?

24:07 - Chelsea (Host)

What was? Yeah. So I called them back and I said you know, like what happened? And they said we don't know what happened, which wasn't true. They absolutely knew what happened, but they weren't going to tell me. In that moment they said we don't know what happened, but we know that somebody came from the other lane and hit the pedal. And that's when I went. Well, were they drunk? Were they texting, like what happened? And they said we don't know. And that's when I started to go like, oh God, like somebody did this, and that that felt worse. I'm not trying to like grief is grief, loss is loss. I'm not trying to say one is worse than the other, but that was the first time I was like, oh, somebody caused this.

24:49 - Maya (Host)

Like this wasn't-. No, it brings up a different emotion Chelsea.

24:51

It's very valid it brings up a different emotion because it's you know again, you're right, there's, you know there's no point in us comparing, right, but it brings a different narrative and it brings a different complexity to your grief and to your loss, because now you know it would have been one thing if it was a rainy day and maybe, or the roads were wet and maybe they veered off, it was a complete accident. That's still horrific and we're not comparing. But you know your question is going to be like more existential, like why God or?

25:23

why universe, or why, when there's someone at fault, you tend to shift a little bit in your grief journey. And so, again, different questions for different people, different anger is allotted to different people or directed in different ways. So, no, this is very valid and I'm glad we're talking about this aspect of your story because it's very important. So, knowing that there was a party responsible, it does change things. It really does.

25:49 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah oh yeah, as I'm sure that that you know it does. And even when I heard that I was still I was like I hope, I hope it was somebody that had a seizure, I hope it was a heart attack, I hope it was a medical emergency. I hope that it can't be helped. I just knew like this will be worse, like this will feel, this will feel so horrible. Um, so the next day, um, you know, at that point, like people were starting to come to my house, I think my mom and I were. You know, I was kind of just calling people in shock and being like my sister, my dad, are dead and then be like I have to go, I have to call somebody else, and, um, my mom was calling. You know, we don't have a lot of family, like that's also the other thing that sucks is, you know, we didn't have a lot of family to begin with. So you know, and then we've lost a lot of family since. So, but at this point, like people were starting to come. You know, my, my dad had a serious girlfriend, her and her daughter, like our other friends. You know, people from New York are getting the call and making their way down. So that's how it felt for the next like five days or so, that my mom's house was just full of people. We had air mattresses in the dining room and a lot of people around, so at some point people are starting to come.

26:59

The next day we got a phone call from the victim advocate at the district attorney's office. So that's the person that just kind of works with the victims to kind of talk them through. You know the. You know a court case, if there's going to be a court case, right, um.

27:18

So that's when we found out that, um, um, that there was a man, um, and his girlfriend were driving an suv and they were completely knotted out, overdosing on heroin while they were driving down the road and they had both been driving, they had both been switching off, like one would not out, then the other would drive and then they would not out, so they were switching back and forth. And then, yeah, this man was driving and he was completely passed out and the witnesses saw that he had his head kind of slumped against the driver's side window while he was driving and he just drove right into my dad, my sister, right to the motorcycle and hit them head-on. And it looked like from the witnesses and stuff that my dad had tried to swerve out of the way, um, and they still hit him and that was again even worse than I had imagined, um, yeah, and because now you're getting these answers and they're not the ones that you wanted.

28:27 - Maya (Host)

No, so what happens next? Some people listening do understand what it's like to work with a victim's advocate. Some people are, unfortunately, new to it. I think you know. Overall, it's very helpful to have that, gotten some really big news, like news that you, you know. Once you are like, okay, yes, like I've lost my, my sister, my dad, like, like you said earlier very well, like I hope it was really truly an accident. I hope it was really truly. This is awful, awful, which you've uncovered, and I can only imagine that like anger was coming up in you, like what emotions were you feeling as you were having that conversation with your victim's advocate? Like I can't imagine. But I can also because I remember, you know hearing some crazy things in a totally different way.

29:13

So what was kind of going through your mind and your body? Because I can feel like anger come up in me. So I think a lot of us can connect with that.

29:22 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, I mean, it was a level of anger I never even knew I could feel it was a level of hatred I never even knew I could feel it was a level of hatred I never knew that I could feel. I mean, I remember when she told I guess somebody spoke to her and then they told everyone and I was sitting outside on my mom's deck on her table and I just slammed the table with my fist and just knocked everything off, I was so angry and I stayed angry, I really stayed angry. And so the person that did this, you know, of course, was charged with vehicular homicide. He was, you know, immediately, you know, put in jail while he was awaiting sentencing and you know, a trial. But we went to court.

30:07

He ended up pleading guilty um, which he did not want to do. So he showed really very little remorse for what he did um, even at the scene, you know people, you know oh, because of course people saw the accident. They stopped. I think people realized pretty quickly that my father, my sister, had been killed instantly and somebody had turned to him at the time and I think it was very apparent when he got out of the car that he was on drugs. He actually tried to make his girlfriend say that she was the one that was driving the car.

30:39 - Maya (Host)

And what a, what a wonderful gentleman Right.

30:42 - Chelsea (Host)

Oh, my God, oh yeah, and she went along with it for a little while. And get out of town, are you serious? Yeah.

30:50 - Maya (Host)

She went along with it, but there's so many witnesses like you were saying that it was just not going to fly. Yeah, yeah.

30:56 - Chelsea (Host)

People very quickly were like no, it was absolutely not her. Yeah and yeah. And somebody said to him, I think when they were waiting for the police to get there, like do you realize? You just killed two people. And he looked down at the motorcycle on the ground and he lit a cigarette and he said no, that wasn't me. The curb woke me up and yeah, and then you know. And then he he really didn't want to plead guilty. His, his public defender was like you don't really have a choice, like there's really no defense here. I think he was hoping he could create some kind of confusion by trying to get his girlfriend to take the rap that they wouldn't know. But I mean, this was such an open and shut like you know so many witnesses they saw you do it. You're clearly on drugs, you have drugs in the car, there's drugs in your system. Like there's no defense here.

31:50 - Maya (Host)

And so even like, like how am I going to defend you? Yeah, I'm sure his attorney was like how do I even defend you? Like this is this is you know? Like just you gotta, you gotta do it and like you gotta take accountability.

32:08 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, crazy yeah, and he did not want to.

32:09 - Maya (Host)

He tried to fire his public defender and get a different one, and and you're hearing all this information through your victim's advocate, right? I just want to clarify this for people. How are you finding out about all this?

32:16 - Chelsea (Host)

No, sorry. So we, we met very quickly. We met with the assistant district attorney, who's the person that prosecutes the case. We, we went right away and we really wanted to be involved. We wanted to know what was happening. So our victim advocate, to be honest, I kind of felt like her only real role was, I mean, she would kind of tell us what was going on, but we were hearing it from the assistant district attorney.

32:42

The reason I started thinking about this was when you're talking about anger is I was so visibly angry and every single time I was in a courtroom with him like I, I mean I was shaking, I had my fist balled up, I wouldn't take my eyes off of him, and so everybody really thought that I was going to attack him and you probably felt like you were inside. Yeah, I mean I, you know I they didn't really give me a chance to, but it kind of felt like after a while I would joke that the victim advocate's only role was just to remind me not to attack him in the courtroom. She would just say that every time we went in, just so you know, if you attack him, they will press charges and he won't be allowed to go to any other court proceeding. So that was kind of all I felt like she was really doing. And, um, and they really I mean they they brought him in through a special door like there was. This was a relatively small town. This was a pretty big deal.

33:34

When it happened, it was like very front page of the paper, which was another you know, level of trauma to deal with, because I'm not, you know, I'm not somebody that really wanted to be on the front page of the paper. I didn't really want to be interviewed, but it felt like I didn't have a choice and that was a tough thing too. Like at the sentencing, you know, they put a picture of me crying on the front page of the paper, like that's. You know, if you Google me 10 years later, you're going to see a picture of me crying in a courtroom. You're going to see quotes, like you know, from my victim impact statement and that was tough, you know.

34:04 - Maya (Host)

That was tough to deal with as well, I think a lot of people who have dealt with homicide, whether it's like my homicide or vehicular homicide, which is what you are dealing with and thank you for answering that already, because I was going to say what we're dealing with here because obviously it was a vehicular. You know, some people might say manslaughter, no, it was homicide, what happened here. But you know, I think you're talking about so many things that a lot of people listening will be curious to learn more about or may connect with, unfortunately, personally, and one thing that we talk about a lot on here, and one is the victim's advocate. So thanks for sharing about that, and I do think people have varied experiences.

34:44 - Chelsea (Host)

Absolutely.

34:48 - Maya (Host)

But I do think you just gave a great piece there. If you can get involved with the DA or assistant DA, like, you're really going to the source there and so if you're someone like you and Jermal, like if you guys want the answers, that's where you're going to get the answers. So I wanted to point that out. But tell us a little bit about giving your victim's impact statement, because we were talking about that on this season with anyone who's gone through a loss.

35:07

That's a homicide and I think I get this. This is like the number one question I get from people going through a homicide type case Should I do it or should I not do it? Tell us a little bit about that, chelsea. Are you glad that you did it, what was that experience like for you and what advice can you give to to people? I'd love for you to share that part of your story if you wouldn't mind yeah, absolutely um.

35:32 - Chelsea (Host)

So to clarify, I might have mentioned he did plead guilty so we didn't have to go through a trial. He did eventually plead guilty, um, and we had what's called an agreed upon plea. So it means that the prosecution and the defense both agree on a sentence which was 15 to 20 years. We were not happy with that sentence, you know. We felt like he had a very long criminal history before this, like the chances of him doing this again are high, you know, and that might sound like a long sentence, but he could be out in five years.

36:09 - Maya (Host)

That's not right that's not anybody who's new to this process, like you got to understand. 15 to 20 years is like five years, it's not you know, it depends on your state, it depends on your jurisdiction, it depends on your city, it depends on where you know. Disclaimer we're not attorneys here but we have experience with this, and when somebody gets sentenced for that amount of time, they're not sentenced for that amount of time. They're not actually serving that amount of time.

36:30 - Chelsea (Host)

So yeah, yeah well, yeah, in massachusetts I'm I forget now exactly what it was I think he could get like a month off, a year, for good behavior, um, which could, which could mean he could get out tomorrow. Um, we, we know that he hasn't had good behavior in jail. Um, you are, which one thing I would encourage people to do, at least in Massachusetts. I don't know how it works in other states. Massachusetts, I will say, does have a lot of victim programs. They have a victim of violent crime fund. So we didn't have to pay for anything. We didn't have to pay for the funerals, the burials, anything. That's beautiful, yeah, which is nice. And you are allowed to get updates on how the person is doing in prison. So we know that he's been caught multiple times, like with people mailing up heroin and stuff in prison. So you know and you are.

37:17 - Maya (Host)

This is, this is everywhere you are allowed to know when. When they're due for you, know they're up for parole and all of that. So it does translate Absolutely.

37:25 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, but yeah, but we, you know, but we, you know, we we didn't want 15 to 20 years. And I think you know a lot of people have said to me like, oh, you're so lucky, um, which of course nobody feels lucky, and that I do when I speak to somebody like you, where there was no prosecution and the person was completely let off, like I do feel fortunate that at least it wasn't that situation, because I can't even imagine what it would feel like to have a family member be murdered and then the person just walks and they don't even get, they don't even get prosecuted, and it's, it's horrific.

37:57 - Maya (Host)

But you know, the thing about it, chelsea, is that you know, regardless and this is something I talk about quite a lot this season and I've talked about on other shows now that I'm doing other shows about this you know, nothing's gonna bring my brother back, right? I think that's when I got to the place and it doesn't make it okay and doesn't mean it's okay and doesn't mean it's okay what this guy did, but nothing's gonna bring him back. Is it scary that this guy I know who he is, I know the things he done and all of this happened the way that it did? Yes, but the reality is that nothing's going to bring my brother back. And it doesn't mean that I don't wish things that went differently. I do.

38:38

But you have every right to feel and this is for all of you guys you have every right to feel like I can't believe he only got 15 years or I can't. You know what I'm saying Like, but I do think it is quite healthy to also be like gosh, at least we got something, you know, at least we got something. But I still think we need to tell these stories because it's still not enough. It's still not enough. It needs to end all over you know yeah yeah, absolutely.

39:02

um, so do you? Are you glad that you made your statement, though? Tell again, tell us little bit about that process? Because, yes, thanks for clarifying. Yes, I know you guys didn't go to trial because you agreed, but do you feel like it was still important? I think this is a great message, like do you feel like it was still important? Tell us a little bit about that.

39:19 - Chelsea (Host)

Yes. So for me, absolutely yes, it was. You know, I, in terms of like, like, if other people should do it, I can't tell anybody, you know, if if it's something that feels like it's too hard, it's too traumatizing, it's too whatever, like I, I support anybody doing what they need to do in their own grief journey. Um, for me, it was really important because I felt like I was really the person that lost two people. You know, I lost my father and I lost my sister.

39:49

And you know, not to say, my mom did lose two people, but her and my dad had not been together for a very long time, so it was a very different loss for her and I felt like it was really important, especially for my dad. I felt like, you know, my sister had a ton of support, as she should, and there's, you know, a difference, you know, when you're 29 versus when you're older, but it really it felt like I really needed to to be the one to stand up for my dad, too, and make sure that that he didn't also get lost in this, because, as much as, like it made sense that there was an emphasis on my sister, as there should be, as my dad would want there to be an emphasis on my sister.

40:26

I wanted to make sure that it was also spoken for that. He died too. He was killed too yeah, absolutely, and I really wanted to make it clear as much as I could the magnitude of two losses. So for me, it was important not to speak to the person that did this. I truly don't think he cared. I don't think that he felt anything. He was very stoic. He never really showed any emotion throughout this whole process.

40:57

It wasn't to speak to him. It was to speak to every other person in the courtroom. It was to make him hear the things that I wanted to say about him in front of everybody else. Whether it made an impact on him, I don't know and I don't care. That wasn't the point of it.

41:13

It was like this is my opportunity to speak for what this has been like for me, and so I'm you know, I'm very glad that I did it. It never really crossed my mind not to. I also felt like it's the least that I get, Like this is such a horrible process and I don't really have a lot of rights in it. I'm not going to get my way in any part of this, but at least I can speak. At least I can have a voice and say like this is what happened to me and because of this person's selfish, reckless actions, because he chose to operate a vehicle when he was essentially unconscious, Like I lost my father and my sister and I need to be able to speak that and let people feel the magnitude of that.

41:56 - Maya (Host)

Yeah, beautifully said, kelsey. I think it's really interesting your perspective, though, and the kind of your objective as well, because I think some people want to do the victim's advocate statement, because I think a lot of the same things that you shared, right, but sometimes people do want to speak directly to the person, right, and so I think that's okay too, like that's totally okay. But I connect a lot with what you're saying too. Sometimes, like, if you feel like you want to do it, do it, like that's kind of what I tell people. I tell people because I think you're always going to regret the things that you didn't do. You're not going to regret the things that you you did.

42:31

I mean you might, but like that's okay, like oops, or like it was super hard or whatever, but something like this I think you're gonna have more regrets if you don't do it versus doing it, and it doesn't mean that doing it is right for you, but if you feel like this is something you want to do, you could have someone else read the statement, you could still write it. So there's different options which we've talked about on this season. So I was really curious to hear kind of your perspective and why you did it, why you shared, and I love that because I think it is important. You really are the connection point of your father and your sister and so you giving that statement and you speaking out like you're the epicenter for them, right? So if you didn't make that statement, you know we'll never have to ask that question.

43:19 - Chelsea (Host)

We'll never have to ask that question, I wonder.

43:21 - Maya (Host)

Yeah, so, yeah. So again, thanks for sharing that part with us. I think that's interesting, I think everyone needs to do it for whatever reason they feel, and again if you have that nagging feeling or gnawing feeling, I always tell people to do it.

43:34

There's something telling you like, and that's with anything in life. So tell us a little bit about how life was after you lost your sister and your father and how you've come 10 years. I know it's a big question, but kind of tell us a little bit about that, because it sounds like you had a really supportive partner. Did you guys have celebrations of life, funerals? What was it like, kind of post the loss for them? Did you see their bodies like? What was that like for you?

44:01 - Chelsea (Host)

yeah, yeah, uh, all that. So, um, we I did see their bodies um probably a couple days after they died, um and which is another hard decision right do I see them or?

44:15

do I not, that's a hard one, yeah yeah, um, and yeah, that's another one. I'll never tell anybody what you should or shouldn't do there, um, I think I had to really prove it to myself that they were really gone, I think that if I didn't see it, I, I like, would always, like, I would always wonder we're so good at like this magical thinking, like and I, I was still there.

44:37

I was like you know, maybe, like, maybe somebody stole their wallet and then stole my dad's motorcycle and they get on it, they're the ones that crash. They're actually OK. Like I, you really can convince your brain of a lot of things. I was like I have to see them. And also, I think you know not to be like too graphic, but given the nature of how they died Right, that's a violent death getting killed coming off a motorcycle, of violent death getting killed coming off a motorcycle, um, and I think that I was really afraid that I was gonna see like them very injured or very disfigured, um, and it it did give me some peace to see that it wasn't, it wasn't like that, like it was. It was sort of shocking, like I remember when I saw them and I was like you, except for the fact that you're dead, you look fine, and that was weird. I'm like how could you be dead when you look so fine? You know, of course it's all internal injuries, it's all like blunt force trauma, but so for those two reasons. It was important for me to see them, but I only saw them the one time. I did not want to see them after that. We did not do like an open casket. I knew that my sister made. I would definitely not want hundreds of people seeing them like that. Um, you know, I think they had opened it like one other time and I was like please, please, shut it, like it's enough now. Um and yeah, so we had a funeral, um, and I mean it was fine.

45:58

I think it was hard because I wasn't really in a place to advocate for what I wanted. I was still like in so much shock and so, looking back on it now, there's a lot of things I would have done differently, but I was just trying to get through it. We had a memorial for my sister, also in New York, maybe about a month later, and I mean none of those things you know really brought me any peace. It just felt like something you kind of have to do, right and yeah.

46:28

And then I stayed in Massachusetts for probably like a month or two after they died, and so did my boyfriend. He actually quit his job and stayed in Massachusetts with me. I didn't go back to work for probably close to three months, like it, just it. It really felt like doing anything was impossible, like I was like how do I? Like I would be at the grocery store, you know, a couple weeks later and I like, I wanted to like scream out like my father, my sister just died, like what the hell am I doing here? And but eventually you sort of have to pick up the pieces and move forward with your life, like not because you want to, because you have to Like you have to.

47:05

If I stop going to work I'm going to run out of money, Like if I stop going to the store I'm not going to eat. So I eventually went back to work, which was tough, because I just I could not care. I just I could not care, and my job was kind of stressful.

47:25 - Maya (Host)

And people would come to me with like issues and they complain about stuff and I'm just like I don't, I don't care I don't care at all.

47:28

Well it's because it's so, it's minutiae, it doesn't matter, you just lost your sister and your father. Like, yeah, who cares if this is not right? Or who cares if someone's upset about something? Like you've just dealt with death, yeah, double time. So I understand and I know a lot of you listening, if not all of you understand that too because it it's like and I love your grocery store reference it's like how dare you guys keep shopping for your milk and your eggs and like whatever. Like what are you doing? Like the world just ended, yeah, and it did for you.

47:58 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, it's very real. Yeah, that's that's exactly how I felt and, um know, and I think also I had a lot of delayed sort of side effects of grief that I didn't expect and I think they kind of hit me. So, um, like I developed a lot of anxiety. I didn't realize too, and I think it's something that's not really talked about that much, but like I lost the two people that I was closest to. I lost the two people that were like really loved me the most in the world, really understood me, really got me. Like the people I went to when I had a problem, like I was very close with my sister, I was such a daddy's girl, like it was always, you know, if I had an issue, I was calling one of them to bail me out, you know, literally and figuratively, and and so when you lose that, that's a really big source of love in your life that you don't have anymore and that takes a toll on you after a while. I think, like it was, it was sort of a profound sadness, like beyond losing that, like sad for myself, like I think I had. I had lower self-esteem, I, I doubted myself more, I had anxiety, like I felt unsure because I was like I've lost my biggest support system. So, trying to kind of, and I and I think a lot of things in my life changed.

49:17

Um, you know, my boyfriend and I broke, I think about two or three years after they died. I don't think it was really related to, you know, my grief or anything with that and again I said he was a very supportive partner. I think we just grew apart and we just fell out of love and we ended. You know, we were together for six years. We ended pretty amicably and then I quit my job and I moved back to Massachusetts and I've been in Massachusetts for the last seven years.

49:43

I thought I'd stay for like six months and I've been here for seven years and so I really kind of rebuilt my life here. My friend, emma, also moved from New York to Massachusetts with me, so I'm extremely close to her. She lives down the street from me, down the street from me and, you know, you learn to be happy and you learn to find meaning again. But I'm a very different person, you know, than I was in 2014. I missed the person I was when I didn't understand profound grief and loss and I didn't see the ripple effect of everything that happens after.

50:17 - Maya (Host)

But very well said, chelsea. Yeah, the ripple effect Totally, and you are a different person and that might that might attribute to why you know, your relationship evolved and you know but I am curious to ask you about that, that piece though, because you did mention earlier in the episode, I want to ask you about this that he was emotionally, mentally, physically checked in, physically checked in. So can you share a little bit about what he did right as a partner, because this is another question that comes up so much. You know, like, how do I get my husband, my boyfriend, my girlfriend, my wife, whatever, they don't understand what's going on. But I think it's interesting because I think people kind of check out because they don't, or they kind of lean in because they don't, and it sounds like your boyfriend leaned in because he didn't.

51:03

So what are some things that he did that were comforting for you? So 10 years later you can reflect back and be like, look, we just grew apart. We didn't work out, but like he was great, he was really there for me. I'd be curious to hear that.

51:16 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, I think that he he just had my back in every possible way and it was little things and it was big things. And he he showed up. I mean, he was there, he came, picked me up, brought me in Massachusetts, didn't leave for like a month, quit his job. Uh, he came to every single you know court case that are you know court appearance that we had, um, and, and he advocated for me in little ways. I remember this is such a small thing, but we were at the funeral home and we were picking out caskets and the funeral director was like you know, they're caskets, they go on the ground. Just, you just pick the cheapest ones, like don't go crazy. And there was this model that was Chelsea caskets and that was the name of it. And I was like, well, you know, I want the Chelsea caskets. And I kind of said it and nobody really paid attention. They're kind of like yeah, okay, do the, you know, do that cheapest model? And my boyfriend was like no, no, she wants the Chelsea caskets. Like did you hear her? She wants the Chelsea casket.

52:17

And I think what meant the most to me is you know, grief can make you really crazy. It can make you do things where you're like, oh my God, who was that? Amen, sister. And you get triggered in these weird ways where you're just like, oh my God. And he was so supportive of me, even when I was being a crazy person, and he had my back fully.

52:39

I remember I had gone a couple months after they died. I had gone to a party with him and some of his friends and they were playing Risk, which was a game that I grew up playing with my sister and my dad. I'm good at it, my dad taught me when I was little. We played all the time and I started playing and I started winning. Then everybody did what you do when you're playing Risk you gang up on the winner and you try to gang up and take them out. And you're playing risk, you gang up on the winner and you try and gang up and take them out. And I got so triggered and probably even drinking too much, and I started snapping at everyone and be like you're you're really not gonna let me win like my dad and my sister are dead. You're not gonna let me win like that's.

53:13

My dad, who's dead, taught me to play this game and I was asked of making people visibly uncomfortable. I was being like a little insane, that's a little insane to throw at people at a party. And he just was like that's what she's going through, like you know, like totally like did not, was not embarrassed, was that? Didn't tell me I shouldn't have done it. He's like, hey, that's what she's going through. She's in a really bad place. Like you probably should let her win. I don't know what to tell you. You know, and I think it was it was that it was like the little things that he advocated for me with and then just just I told him I was going to quit my job with without having another job lined up, and he was like, okay, if that's what you got to do, that's what you got to do. You know, really, just very there for me.

54:06 - Maya (Host)

Thanks for sharing that, Chelsea.

54:07

I think that's so helpful because you've said quite a few things that I've seen in good partners right, and I'm going to clarify it doesn't mean that you have a bad partner. They just might not know how to lean in right, and so because different personalities, they all grieve different, they all process things different. So that's what happens sometimes when we go through a significant loss. We really kind of see, maybe, how that person deals with things, and it doesn't mean that they can't. And you said a lot of really interesting things.

54:25

One he was just there, and that's what I always tell people when they're like how can I be there for someone? I'm like I just physically needed someone to be next to me, because the person I was dating a guy at the time that I lost my brother super nice guy, you know did not end poorly or anything like that, but it's quite a new relationship and he was so busy with his career and he just couldn't be there. And the person who was there for me was someone that I had dated in the past, but we had actually been friends for like a decade and he was just physically there. He was physically there, so much so that he actually launched my first podcast with me.

54:57 - Chelsea (Host)

So I owe him a lot.

55:03 - Maya (Host)

Yeah, but those are the kinds of things he did well for me too, chelsea. Like he was just there and when I said, hey, I gotta leave my job. Like which everyone else is like are you lost your mind? Like you have this big corporate career. Like I was 30 years old and I was like I just gotta he's like do it. He's like you gotta you know, you gotta stay at my place. You can stay at my place. Like you want me to move in, help you with with the mortgage, Like I'll.

55:20

And that none of that happened, thank God. But just feeling like you have a safety net, feeling like someone's physically present, feeling like someone has your back, like you said. Like I I mean, I don't even know who I was in 2017. Like, I don't even know who I was. Yeah, and there's things that I probably don't remember, things that I look back on. Like you said, maybe drinking too much or lashing out at people and it was really the people that just you know, it's not that they put up with my bad behavior, but they were just like look, she's going through something and you know they weren't afraid to be honest with me, but they were there for me too, and I think there's a balance and it sounds like he really nailed it.

55:52 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that what can happen a lot with your partners or people close to you is like they want to make it better and they want to solve it, and they can't solve it, and so they'll do things like give you advice or try and tell you what to do or tell you you shouldn't do certain things, and it is coming from a place of like wanting to solve the problem, but it's a problem that can't be solved. So, just right, I think just being there is really all you can do is just support the person and be there I couldn't agree with you more.

56:19 - Maya (Host)

Yep, and that's that's why boyfriend did such a great job. My friend did such a great job. It was exactly what the doctor ordered. No, you know, we just kind of need people there, and you're right. They want to give you advice. And you know, you don't really know, you haven't been in my situation.

56:32

You haven't been in my shoes, and so, just before we start to kind of close out, chelsea, you did mention earlier that you and your mom have grieved so differently and you gave us the example of her wanting to call and you know you wanting to kind of be like no, you know, because it makes it real, which a lot of us can relate to how you guys have grieved differently and where you are now, 10 years into this, because I know me personally I'm now at a place where I'm like, all right, I might not agree with things that certain family members do and I know they feel the same way about me, but I'm okay with that as long as it's a healthy way of processing grief. So I'm curious to see where you are in your journey, because you're 10 years into this and your mom and you have grieved so differently.

57:20 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, you know, I mean to be totally candid. My mom and I have always struggled a little bit in our relationship and there was always sort of this natural divide where, like it was me and my dad and my sister and my mom and we had to learn outside of grieving. We had to learn how to have a relationship that was just the two of us, that didn't have a buffer. It was always I'd stay with my mom, I'd go to my sister, I'd tell her she'd call my mom, she'd mediate it. You know, I'd complain to my dad. He'd make me feel better. When it was just the two of us, it was like wow, we've never had a relationship, just the two of us. You know, I mean my mom. You know one one perfect example is on the year anniversary they died, my mom wanted to go to the spot that they died, like where they physically died at the actual time that they died, and I went and I'm standing there and I'm like this is horrible, this is torture, like why are we doing this to ourselves? This is not making me feel better at all and a lot of the stuff that I want to do on the anniversaries and birthdays is just like simply get through the day. I don't. I don of the stuff that I want to do on the anniversaries and birthdays is just like simply get through the day, I don't, I don't, I just I just want to maybe go out to eat or watch a movie. I just want to get through it.

58:31

And I think my mom is. Rituals are very important to her. Um, you know, she has a lot of beliefs in terms of spirituality and stuff that it just really like it feels like she needs to honor them in like every step of the way, and I just I think we honor them differently and different things. You know, you know so right to us. Um, you know, even you know my mom wants to talk about my sister to anybody. You know who will listen and and I'm a little bit more careful about who I talk to people about with you know, it's, it's hard.

59:02

I'm a little bit more careful about who I talk to people about with. You know, it's, it's hard. I feel like this is a. This is a huge trauma that I've been through and I don't owe my story to everybody. I don't, I don't have. Like my mom will be at a restaurant and be like this food is delicious. Um, my daughter would have loved this food, but she's not here anymore and I'm like, okay, like I don't, I don't feel the need to do that, I don't want to like you know, and we've had to work, like when they first died I was like I'll never fight with my mom ever again.

59:30

You know she's all I have. And of course, we fought hundreds of times over the last 10 years. There was a period where we didn't speak to each other and we've really, really had to work hard. We've gone to therapy together. We've had to really work hard to make our relationship strong and I will say we're in a very good place right now and we've been in a good place for a while.

59:51

But I think we definitely had some growing pains in getting there and figuring out how to, you know, plan anniversaries and birthdays where we both, you know, got what we wanted out of them. And it's also hard too because, you know, got what we wanted out of them. And and it's also hard too because, you know, even when I'm spending time with my mom, like I, I still, 10 years later, I'm like God, this would be so much more fun if my sister was here, like we do stuff together, and it's like we both feel that that empty chair so so much that it's, it's hard. You know it's, it's, it's's a, it's a very, very heavy, heavy loss.

01:00:26 - Maya (Host)

It's, it's very salt and it really every aspect of my life. Yeah, yeah, I think, um, I think it's great though. I think it's great that you and your mom have done therapy and have worked through stuff and you know, I think if you could look back and you know at that time and then look forward, you know, I think I think that person would be super proud of where you are today. I think it's it's really tough. It's really tough when you lose a family member or anyone in your life. That's like a glue that keeps other relationships together for you, which is really a big part of your story, chelsea. Yeah, and you know it's difficult and I think grieving in different ways, like for me. I wanted everyone to grieve like me.

01:01:09

You know, I was like you got to be angry and pissed off and want justice and all of this.

01:01:13

And you know, there's still sometimes where it creeps up and I do feel that way and I do not always love the way that some of my other family members grieve. But seven years into this, I feel I'm really aligned with your story and where you are it's like look, this is what they need to do, this is what I need to do, and I can understand why that would have been super intense on the one year anniversary of going to the scene where it happened. That's intense, you know. But I think it's great that you accept your mom and like what she needs to do and it sounds like she does prompting questions, which some people do. It's typical in grief that I've learned.

01:01:48

I'm no therapist but, again, I've learned so much doing this for two years now and it's interesting that people will do prompting questions. And I'm a little bit I think I'm kind of in the middle of you and your mom like I really do enjoy talking about my brother, but I don't. I've shared my story with the world. So I you know, but I didn't do it because I felt like I owed his story, my story, to the world. I wanted his story to be told and I'm not just gonna tell anyone the nitty-gritty details like what happened, what I get to choose, what I share, and I feel like you and I do have that in common in a lot of you guys as well.

01:02:23 - Chelsea (Host)

Yeah, absolutely yeah, and I think that's another thing too. It's very different. My mom is I. I am so angry and you know, even when we were, you know even the way that we reacted, you know, to the person that did this, like my mom would just cry, like it would just make her so sad, and I was like I mean, I just want to get up and I just want to attack him. And I think that I always have sort of you know, processed a lot of my negative feelings through anger, and I think that can be really challenging. It can be hard to be around somebody that's angry if you don't also feel the same way, if you're not similarly angry.

01:02:57 - Maya (Host)

And I agree, so well said Chelsea. I think, yeah, I think that's really. You know, if I'm like here, we can rethink that. I'm like I think I was very difficult for my family to be around. I think I was very difficult because I was so flipping angry, like just so angry, and I can tap back into that like that if I need to, you know no-transcript.

01:03:47 - Chelsea (Host)

I can feel sad, I can feel angry, I can feel, you know, happy, and I think what I had to learn was to not lash out at people, because I definitely would lash out at people with my anger.

01:03:59

Yeah, and it felt very acceptable because I was like, you know, it's almost like when a little kid throws a temper tantrum, like I have so many big feelings, like I need to lash out at you about them, and I, you know, I was like I don't, I don't want to hurt the people that are closest to me, I don't want to hurt the people that are, that are there for me, but I don't think that people should. You know, all emotions are valid. It's what we do with them that counts. And I think, you know it's okay to be angry. You just can't, you know, take it to an extreme, you can't do anything that's really damaging with it. But I don't think people should be afraid to be angry. If that's the way you're feeling, just process it in a good way.

01:04:36 - Maya (Host)

I love that. Yes, because I think I was definitely afraid to be angry too.

01:04:41

So, like I connect and so I think that just kind of it's almost like a ball rolling down a hill then, so like, if you're afraid to do it, it's just going to keep going and going and you know it keeps going and you're like, and it's just picking up stuff on the way down and then you're going to smack into something, right, and that's the lashing out part and that definitely happened, for I connect with that, definitely. Yeah, I mean, it's just another emotion, but it's a very uncomfortable one, which is why sometimes we try to shove it down and then you lash out. Yeah, chelsea, I just thank you so much for sharing Brittany and your dad with us today and your story. Is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you want to share about Brittany and your dad and this again horrible loss as you move into year 10 that you want to share with all of us, or anything that you want to reflect back on over the past 10 years and share with us?

01:05:29 - Chelsea (Host)

Oh gosh, I mean it's hard because I could really. You know, if I start talking about my sister right now, there's such wonderful, incredible people. It's hard to capture that in a short amount of time. It's hard to capture that in a long amount of time how wonderful that they were. You know, my dad was the funniest, smartest person I've ever met. Like he dropped everything to take care of us. You know he's always say that. You know his gift to the world was his two daughters and you know he, just he, he loved us so much my sister and I it's. You know as as hard as it is and how much. You know there's no amount of time that's enough and how devastated I am. Like I'm so thankful that I had her for 27 years. I'm so thankful that I had my dad for 27 years.

01:06:12

You know, and the only thing that I would share, now that I'm 10 years out from my grief journey, one thing that has really helped me a lot is connecting with other people that have experienced loss, and so now I volunteer with children that have lost a loved one. You know, either you know usually a parent or a sibling, and that's, I feel like that's been really healing for me is to, you know, have once you've had some time and had some experience, which for me that's been so important, was be able to give back in the same way that you are, to be able to like connect with people and give back on the experience that you have. And I remember what it was like, you know, when I went to my first grief support group and I was like a month in and I didn't even know how I was like functioning, and to hear from people that were 10 years in was so important. So I'm trying to do that now as well.

01:07:04 - Maya (Host)

Chelsea. I love that. Yes, Thanks so much for doing that. And yeah, it is inspiring, right, Because you're like okay, if Chelsea made it to 10 years, maybe I can make it too.

01:07:15 - Chelsea (Host)

It gives you hope, right.

01:07:17 - Maya (Host)

And so that's why something clicked with me at five years. I was like I don't know what it is, but you know, and I feel like these milestones because we're human and we set these like five, 10, 15, you know milestones, even though you might find one year is more significant than one of those milestone years. So it's interesting. Well, thank you so much for giving back to the community, thanks for coming on here again and sharing your amazing sister and your father it's just again and sharing your amazing sister and your father. It's just again. There's a lot of people that message me about motorcycle accidents and so, again, really excited to share your story because you're again, a lot of people are going to connect with you. Where can people? I didn't know you were giving back. This is so cool. So where can people connect with you? Are you on? What are your social handles that you're comfortable with?

01:08:00 - Chelsea (Host)

people knowing you? Are you on what's? What are your social handles that you're comfortable with people knowing? Yeah, I mean my Instagram is Chelsea Morgan 808. And my Facebook, I think it's like Chelsea McGrath. I'm not, I'm definitely not the most interesting follow, I'm not very social media active, but if anybody wants to send me a message, you know, or if you have questions or you just want to connect in that way, I'm very open to that.

01:08:19 - Maya (Host)

That's amazing, awesome. Well, chelsea, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your sister and your father with us.

01:08:26 - Chelsea (Host)

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

01:08:28 - Maya (Host)

I really appreciate it, of course, and thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings podcast.