Parul Loses Manu To Oral Cancer

Parul Loses Manu To Oral Cancer- Podcast
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host Maya ler. As a surviving sibling myself, I. I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November, 2016, and after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story, and now it's your turn to share your stories.

2025-03-06--t11-26-41pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Today I have an incredible guest with me. Her name is Perul Dua Makar, welcome to the show.

2025-03-06--t11-26-41pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar: Thank you so much Meyer, for having me.

2025-03-06--t11-26-41pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. I am really excited to have you here with me today because we're going to bring awareness to a topic that we have not covered on the show yet. We have talked about cancer and losing a sibling to cancer [00:01:00] before, but we've never discussed this type of cancer, and this is a true like passion for you in what you do and your work and your sweet brother that you lost.

So. You lost your brother in 2021, but take us back a little bit further and tell us a little bit about your upbringing, your family dynamics. I'm curious about that.

2025-03-06--t11-26-41pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar: Sure, well thank you for having me. And you know, there are very few people that actually associate and realize what a sibling loss and how monumental it can be. So, Manu was my younger and only sibling, we're almost eight years apart. And so, you know, I've changed his diapers. I see. I saw him come into the world and eventually leave the world and, um.

It changed like everything about me, uh, my identity. But, you know, growing up he was a quiet kid, very observant. But as he grew into his self, you know, into his own, [00:02:00] he was witty. Like he'll send these little quirk remarks and it's hilarious. And, you know, he'll be just like, he'll make a small comment and, uh, everything for him was black or white.

He never like had any gray areas. He was. I was like, this is the way, this is how it should be. And if you were his friend, he was your friend to like, to death. Like he would do anything for you as a friend. Um, he was a loyal person. Great. In sports. He played in rugby, he played golf. He, you couldn't beat him on the squash court badminton.

I mean, he was just full of life. Love to dance. Um. Yeah, he just never, he was a fighter and he fought for everything that he got. So, and he fought all about cancer too. He was my only sibling and we grew up in different parts of the world. I am actually born in India, but we moved to the Middle East when I was about five or six, and he was [00:03:00] born in the Middle East in Abu Dhabi, and he came to Canada in his early teens while I was going to dental school and undergrad in us.

And so we kind of grew. In different settings with different set of parents. But, you know, we always, dentistry was something that bonded us. He had followed my footsteps into the field of dentistry and that's kind of what united us because even though we were so far apart, we were different genders. We had different friends, um, and different upbringing.

But we would take courses together, talk about setting up practices, and, and that's what unite, you know, brought us closer together. Um. But yeah, he was my only sibling. And you know, I call myself a global nomad and that's kind of where when I lost him, I didn't have this village of grief protecting me.

You know, from from it. I didn't have my people that I grew up with. You know, your close family friends, your childhood friends. I didn't have [00:04:00] my parents close to me. I didn't have my cousins or anybody. Um, so it was a very challenging time in the midst of covid that. 

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I think it's interesting that you and your brother didn't necessarily grow up around each other, but then ended up both in the dentistry field. So how did that happen?

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: I think I became a dentist and um, he, when I graduated dental school, he graduated high school and he just, I was home. He watched me practice and he's like, you know what? This seems pretty okay. I'll join you. And I. That's how it happened. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Typical younger sibling following in your footsteps. Right. I relate to you too 'cause I'm the oldest, so I, I relate to that for sure. I think that's really, really sweet. Yeah, I think that's really cool. So how, how did your relationship work if you guys were so far apart? Like, did you guys visit each other?

What were the dynamics like? How did you build on that relationship? [00:05:00] And it's a really special relationship too when you're the, that's your only sibling, right? There can be a lot of pressure on that relationship too. So how did that work? What was that dynamic like?

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: so because we, it was just the two of us. We were always together. Um, we were close knit as a family, you know, by parents. And because we moved so many different places, we didn't have like this certain group always hanging out with other cousins. So it was just always the four of us. And, you know, I visited, he would come here, we would take courses together.

He did one externship in New York, so he came and stayed with me, you know, uh. I'm still in touch with all his friends, his closest network of friends. We just became part of each other's lives and we tried to maintain that as best as we could.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Okay. So yeah, so the four of you did, when you saw each other, you were, the dynamic was quite close, right? Because this was your only sibling. And so, um.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: And my parents, yeah.[00:06:00] 

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: and again, I love how he was inspired to go to school and kind of follow in your footsteps. So talk us through a little bit like what that was like, like what was it like when he went to school and then you started your career, obviously.

Were you guys, did you guys live near each other in at any time or were you always separate but close?

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Separate but close. The only time, you know, growing up, yes, we were together. Uh, and then I left for college. I was 17, he was 10. Then we reconnected when I graduated. So he was, you know, 17, then I was 24, and then we were together for those three years and then apart again. So our basic connection was through, we never lived in the same city more than you know, that allotted time.

But you know, we would talk every other day. You know, I talk to my parents every day. Um, I was the first person he told when he had cancer. He's like, I'm telling you, let [00:07:00] me tell my parents on my own time. And I said, okay, you take your time. Um, so, you know, there were some things he would tell me first before he told my parents.

So our parents. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Well, and with that age gap, right? It's, you're kind of a second parent in a

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Oh my God. Yeah. Second mom. Mm-hmm.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah, you're so protective. And you know, I, I'm the oldest too, so I connect with that and I think it's really special when your younger siblings like, look up to you and really trust you, um, with that information.

So let's, let's go to that time. Let's, let's talk about that. So you guys are both in your profession, you're rocking and rolling living life, and he gets. Diagnosed with oral cancer. Walk us through what that was like and when that happened, and obviously you shared with us, um, just a few moments ago that he entrusted you with this information.

So take us to that, that time period and [00:08:00] how this all got diagnosed, how this happened.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: So that was pre Covid in 2019. He was just, you know, he showed me the lesion in June, just before his 33rd birthday. Um, and I flew to Calgary like I always do. He had just bought a new home. He had a startup practice. He was really, like you said, rock and, and rolling. Like he had this startup in high on life and bought a new home.

And, uh, you know, he was invincible. And when I saw the lesion, I'm like, you know, I got this checked out by other people. I think this is cancer. And he's like, no, I can't have cancer. This hurts. Cancer. Doesn't hurt no little misconceptions. And I think when you're in your thirties, cancer is like so far in your, you're not thinking that.

And he was healthy. No, like, you know, not a smoker or, uh, tobacco use or anything. So. He played it off and he was under the care of physicians that delayed the biopsy because there again, cancer is just not on the radar. And unfortunately he was diagnosed, um, [00:09:00] after I visited him in July of 2019 and he got diagnosed and he had a eight hour surgery where he had to remove the lesion.

And I remember my dad calling me up and saying, Hey, Manu got diagnosed with cancer. Is he going to die? And I said, no, mine's gonna be just fine because he is young, they're just gonna take it out. He's gonna get radiation, chemo, it is gonna be great. And he did very well for himself. Um, he had the surgery in August where half his tongue was removed and grafted and a neck graft, uh, dissection in all of that.

So well that he was seeing patients in October and he visited me in New York in September.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Get outta. Here. Are you serious?

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Calgary Calgary to New York's. Not a short flight,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Uh, no.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: It's the other, it's the other class across the continent, you know. So he did, he flew and he was so excited. Uh, he went shopping, brought all these clothes.

He's like, you know, I'm gonna [00:10:00] dress like he got a new zest for life. And he's like, I'm gonna do what I want. And he bought himself a Porsche after his treatment. He's like, I'm, you know, why am I gonna win? Exactly. Why am I gonna. At this point, he was still like so positive that he's gonna beat this, that it was just his first surgery.

And, um, he's like, yeah, I've beaten cancer. I'm gonna go conquer the world now. I'm gonna go get my Porsche. He got a dog, uh, whose name he loved this dog. And he had wrote a whole chapter about this dog and his dog's name was Maya. And Maya means illusion. Um. Illusion wealth like this, you know, in our language it's a beautiful, meaning

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I am very familiar and, um, yes, I'm very, very familiar and, um, because what is your background?

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Indian.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: That's what I thought. That's what I thought. Yeah. And, um, my, uh, my father used to travel there and he worked with a lot of people in the culture and I, I'm [00:11:00] named Maya after Maya Angelou, but also my parents are European and so it's a very European name too.

But I remember my dad like really understanding the Indian, like the illusion, the wealth, the, you know, the beauty of the name. And so I've always felt very lucky in my family 'cause I really love my name, so yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: It's a beautiful name. And, um, so there, that's what he, you know, he wanted this dog and he named Jeremiah and yeah. So he started checking off those bucket list items, knowing that, you know, he was confident he's gonna beat this thing, right. Nobody's gonna expect to No.

And unfortunately, in 2020 when the world. It was battling pandemic borders between US, Canada, something that I had taken. So for granted, right? Things you assume, especially, you know, siblings, your younger sibling gonna outlive you. You are, uh, you're gonna be able to travel between us, Canada, freely, you know, you can drive.

It's landlocked. It's not like you have to take a boat. So, so things you assumed were no longer the, the, the reality and, um, [00:12:00] but it came back. The cancer returned and. You know, he had a, he had to get another surgery lesion was on his chest wasn't biopsied in time. They left it because it was too small on the same side of his, um, initial tongue lesion, and there was something on the lungs.

And that's when he decided that summer of 2020, he decided to quit dentistry, sold his practice. He's like, I'm gonna really live, started kayaking, you know, finding covid friendly activities. And he celebrated his 34th birthday in the midst of Covid. 

We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host, Maya ler. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor, Dr. Peru Du a Mocker is a general dentist who lost her brother and only sibling. Dr. Manu Dua. She lost her brother Manu to oral cancer when he was only 34 years old.[00:13:00] 

Now, Peru helps bring awareness to oral cancer and lectures on this topic. She also helps healthcare professionals navigate grief with her grief coaching services. Peru published the book, life Interrupted Dr. Duas, survival Guide by Dr. Manu Dua. These are a series of blogs that Manu wrote in his last days Peru then helped complete this book and publish it in honor of her brother.

If you're interested in learning more about Peru's services and this incredible book visit, do a good job.com. That's D-U-A-G-O-O-D-J-O b.com.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Unfortunately, you know, things got worse and the lesion on his that was seen on the x-rays back in April of 2020 had grown by the December, [00:14:00] and it was deemed in, the cancer was deemed inoperable. The lesion was all over his lung lining, so they couldn't even remove part of his lung. And I was told that he doesn't have much time.

And so I flew to see him, uh, without being vaccinated on this flight. And, you know, it's a scary time. I know we've, you know, five years post covid, but at that time I was unvaccinated. My parents were like, we're losing one child. We can't lose another child. And I needed to see him and. I had to get a compassion release from the government of Canada.

It has to be signed up by doctors, and there's a whole form. It's about eight pages that has to be cleared, and it's only valid for a month. So it's not like you can come in back because Canada was one of the strictest countries and you had to quarantine for two weeks prior to being let out into the public.

So everybody had to sign where you're quarantining, you know, my dad's house, my brother's house, and. My dad was so dead against it. I actually, he wouldn't even listen to me. He's like, you're not [00:15:00] coming. You have young kids. You have your practice, you have all those things. You're not coming. And because he was in non-medical, it was hard for me to tell my dad, like, no, my brother's dying.

I need to come see him. And so I actually wrote my dad a letter, an email, and saying that. I understand what you're coming from, but this is my only sibling. I haven't been there for any other surgeries. I know it's covid. I understand that. Let me come, allow me. And that's when he signed off because he wasn't ready to sign the paperwork.

Like I had to write this long emotional email. If he wouldn't sign it, I wouldn't be able to travel. And um, so yeah, I flew and you had to get the three day PCR testing. Like it was, it was no joke. And. I flew and, and death was this elephant in the room. We just didn't wanna, you know, we chose to ignore it and dodge it, but we, you know, he didn't talk, didn't walk.[00:16:00] 

You know, this kid who played rugby took the first footsteps, couldn't breathe. Um, and because he had fluid buildup because of the lung lining, um, and cancer had spread into his bones, down to his pelvic bone, he would drain fluid from his port. And I didn't think that that was the last time I would see him.

You know, we, we still talked about a future. We're like, yes, you're gonna beat this. Yes. What are you gonna do? You know, try to be, and um, and unfortunately the way things panned out, he died very quickly. Um, nobody was ever ready for it.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: So this visit was, uh, was when again, it was. Late. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Late in 2020. Yeah. And I, I mean, that was, yeah, I mean the rapid tests and all of

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Oh my. There was no rapid test allowed for Canada. You had to do three day PCR

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I, that's what I heard. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And so it's, you've gotta take it and then you've gotta wait and you've gotta make sure you're quarantining because you don't wanna get it from [00:17:00] anybody.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: so, oh, it was a, it was a mess. And this is why I missed him by a day because of the PCR. 'cause he went into, I was at work. I was supposed to travel a week prior, like March, 2020 first. I, again, I had to reapply for the, uh, treatment 'cause, uh, reapply for the, um, compassion release. But in March he was getting treated with immunotherapy and chemoradiation.

He was getting another round of it. He's like, come see me after I'm done. Don't come in February. Don't come in. Jan. And he was writing, at this point, he had started writing his. Feeling about life and what his life lessons were. And that was his only outlet. You know, friends were limited treatment, you know, protocols.

It was just covid was still rapid. And uh, you know, he's like, come in March. So I actually had my compassion release because he told me, um, he went into the hospital, you know, it was a [00:18:00] daily occurrence. People who've had, you know, patients, uh, sorry, who've had family members going cancer. There's always something or the other happening.

So you're always in and out of the hospital and it was very, you know, like, yeah, Friday night we're going to the hospital, don't call money. He's being admitted. Very norm at this point. And the next day I was at work and my parents said, he's being moved to hospice and if you can, like, this is at late at night.

They finally, you know, there's certain time delay and all of that. There's a two hour and they finally, they said, you know, you, he's not gonna make it for the next week. You need to get on a plane right now. So Sunday. I am struggling to get a PCR. Remember, it takes three days. My doctor could get it within hours.

She, you know, expedited it. And Canada, you know, I was on the consulate. I'm like, I need to go. A Canadian citizen is dying. Nothing. They're like, you can't do Rapid. You have to do three day PCR. We can't accept the rapid. You know, and there's all these limited release [00:19:00] forms that. The day of his funeral, I was on with the Canadian consulate to get a limited release signed off by the funeral director and get it approved that yes, I can go to the funeral home.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Wow.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: husband and I like, there were unprecedented times. Instead of planning and doing the funeral, which, you know, my dad's like I can't plan my son's funeral. I took care of, you know, the casket and planning the eulogy and um, I. And I'm like, oh no, I need to get these forms signed or I'll be jailed. Because Canada was checking on you every single

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah, they were not playing around.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: They're not.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: yeah, that's really

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: So, so on a Sunday I finally did get, and I booked my flight for early morning Monday and Sunday night. You know, as his body was kind of, he was on a morphine drip, he was shutting. We were talking like on the zoom call like you and I are right now. And I told him, you can let go. You don't wait for me.

Don't. I know you're [00:20:00] hurting. Just stop hurting. You go. And within hours of that conversation, he was gone. He was no more. And so you know it. So I knew going that I was planning a funeral, that this is it.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Isn't that flight so hard? Isn't that flight so hard when you're going somewhere and you know that you're not going to see them? I was just talking about this with some, some other folks and you know. My heart goes out to you guys that have to get on a plane knowing that you're going to see a loved one that has passed.

That's

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: happened twice. It happened with my dad

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: last November.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: That's so tough.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: this past November, I knew, they told me he is no longer, um, for your listeners, my dad had a cardiac arrest right after the Thanksgiving in November. On a Thursday, he landed from India. Friday he had a cardiac arrest. And I was, I'm like, what's going on?

And I get on the [00:21:00] phone with the doctors. They're like, we're gonna keep him on the ventilator and under observation, but it's not looking good. Come prepared. So I was on same three years later, the same scenario playing out in my head. I'm planning another funeral. Um,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: And I'm sure that just brought everything back up for you too. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm going through this

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: again, I, yes it is. And I think I've worked, you know, with my grief, uh, over the last four years that I was able to handle my dad's with my brothers. It was much harder. Um, I did go through, um, panic attacks and a lot of depression, anxiety, all of those things, but I worked so hard on myself to process and to make peace with it, and I think part of losing a parent, as you know, they're gonna go right.

That's the nature, love of nature. Your parents precede you and [00:22:00] he wasn't hurting anymore. My dad was not missing my brother anymore. He's with him and, you know. I tell my, when my brother died at his eulogy and I was like, you know, just like a typical younger brother, you love me to do all the work. I have to publish your book.

I have to talk about oral cancer, I have to take care of the parents, I have to take care after your house, blah, blah, blah. You know, so typical, you just had fun and off you go.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: And then my dad, when he passed and he was on the ventilator, and you know, I got to. He was not talking. Obviously he's on a ventilator, but I was like, you know, I knew it.

You loved him more and this is why you're leaving me. You want to be with your son, you don't wanna be with me. I get it. So.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah. Yeah. But you know, we mentioned this before we, we hit record and we were, we were just catching up, but I want you guys to hear this too. Your father didn't have any heart problems. Any heart issues, so this [00:23:00] was a sudden loss for you as well. I totally understand and connect with you saying like, my brother was more intense.

I mean, he was 34. I mean, come on, he's a baby still, you know, but, um, and that's, that was quite rapid what happened with him, but. What I think is interesting is that your father didn't have any heart conditions or issues, so I think, and we connected on this, he died of a broken heart. I think it's a very real thing.

And you were like, he absolutely did. Yeah. He died of a broken heart.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: He has been traveling his entire life. He traveled six continents. He took an international trip, came back, and the doctors are like, there was no clot. When my mom told me he's got a cardiac arrest three times his heart stopped breathing, uh, stopped working and I'm like. Papa, cardiac arrest. Like it didn't correlate, never had, you know, diabetes, you know, other stuff.

But I'm like, heart is no heart in the, uh, history in the family. And the doctor's, like, he has no clots. He has no blockages in his heart. He just, it's just stopped. And he was just so [00:24:00] depressed, um, that his heart stopped beating. Um, and it's still like, to this day, I'm like, I, I don't understand. The doctor's couldn't give us an, an answer either.

He, so it was so quick, and, and he was actually, my dad was supposed to be traveling in a few weeks to come see me for the holidays, for Christmas and New Year's. He had his flight booked. Like it was so out of the ordinary, you know, money I kind of made, you know, we, we were expecting there's that anticipatory grief that, you know, it's coming.

But with my dad, it was like an accident or like, you know, it's just he was here today and gone tomorrow

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Right.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: like that.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: You've experienced so many different aspects of grief in such a short period of time, right? Between your father and Manu, and

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: and my grandparents, I lost my only grandparents that I knew. One in 2020 and one in 20, 21. So in four years

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: You've been through it.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: yeah, I lost my [00:25:00] mom, lost her parents, her son and her husband.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Wow.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Four years and I have this, it's a lot. And I have this picture when I was younger, uh, and that really like, you know, really sank in, there's a picture by the beach in Abu Dhabi.

My grandparents were visiting from India and it's Manu, he must have been seven, eight, like a, you know, young kid. My grandparents, my dad and me. And I looked at that picture. I'm like, everybody but me is gone in this picture.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: that's a moment.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: That's a moment to sink in. I was like, wow, that made it, you know, more like real, not that it isn't real, you know, sometimes you're just going in that process of.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: No, I connect with that and I know you guys listening will connect with that too. There are moments on our grief journey where it like hits us, right? Like different things. Sometimes the depression hits us. Sometimes the anxiety hits us. Sometimes, you know, different [00:26:00] emotions and things hit us, and the feeling of it feeling very real.

That was a moment for you. You were like. So that's a, that's a big thing that we talk about a lot on this show and the different things that we do, like our events and stuff as well. There are significant moments. There were in my, in my journey as well when I was like, oh my God, like this is really real.

And that's a powerful moment that you had looking at that picture, I.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: yeah. It, you realize the fragility of life and you know, you talk about that, but it is just like.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: When you experience it yourself and you have those moments, like you're never gonna forget that moment. And, and looking at that picture, I wanna ask you something before we we move forward a little bit more. What I thought was interesting about Manu story and. How he had this, you know, lesion and sore in his mouth and it was so fast.

Um, and you looked at it and you were like, uh, you know, you were like, I've done this for a while, brother. I think, you know, I thought that was [00:27:00] interesting in the story, but I also think what's interesting is. A couple things, and I have a couple questions for you too. So he had the surgery, a very intense surgery, eight hours.

Oh my God. And then he thought he was gonna be good and, and beat this, and then it, it sounds like it spread or it traveled. Right. That's what happened with the lung, right? Is that

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: nodes, so it traveled from the nodes into the lungs. 'cause he had a node, that's why he had the neck dissection. He had half his tongue removed, grafted, and then he had his neck dissection to remove the nose from the neck, and that's how cancer spreads. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: yeah. Okay. So I want, yeah, I wanted to clarify that so everybody kind of understood what happened and is that, again, I'm, I'm learning so much about this particular type of cancer, which I know this is like your mission to spread awareness to. This was just so important, so. Is this common to happen for that to happen to get diagnosed and then it spread somewhere and then that's kind of what manifests with everything?

Yes, it is.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Yeah, so unfortunately because there is no [00:28:00] real test for oral cancer, that's FDA approved. So like, you know, you get a pap smear done, you get a mammogram done, you get a colon be done. There is no such quite a test for it, and you, it's usually a visual, like, oh, you see a lesion, you get a biopsy.

Unfortunately, of the cases that are diagnosed, 70% of the cases that are diagnosed of oral cancer in stages three and four and their survival rate is like below 50%. But if you catch it in the earlier stages, one and two, before it spreads into the nodes, um, the survival rates over 80%. You know, I know survivors who we know, cancer survivors.

So the key to all of this is that early detection and. More and more cases are in the younger population that weren't the norm before. You know, you would associate oral cancer with like a Chainsmokers, an alcoholic and is, you know, smoking pipe joints or whatever. But more that. But now there are more and more cases with, um, the human [00:29:00] papilloma virus, which is the HPV.

That's what we, you know, there's more awareness for it. And in the younger. Rhyme or reason like Manu didn't have an answer. He's like, I had a 3% chance. It's could be environmental. It's, we don't have an answer to be honest with you.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: That was gonna be my next question for you, so thank you for addressing that and talking about that. And yeah, and, and I was always gonna ask why. So Yeah. HPV is like a, a reason, so like, I mean, gosh, I, I remember when I was young, like that was never really talked about, and now it's like. Talked about all the time and you know, so it's interesting the different things that are coming up.

And I was gonna ask you too, like, what, what, like, why did this happen? And I think that's, that's really difficult too in, in this journey of loss, right? When we can't pinpoint why, like, why did this happen? Do you feel like that's been difficult for you and you're in this industry, you know, is that difficult for you?

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Yeah, it was very, and mon wasn't HPV because that's more, your throat cancers like more in the posterior [00:30:00] area. Mon was on the tongue. And it could be an environmental environment, you know, pollution. All of those things make a difference. So yeah, there, you know, to not have an answer why? And I, you know, and that's kind of sometimes with life, right?

Why being, what could you have done? There's nothing you could have done different, you know, was it a genetic component? 'cause we lost a grandmother to cancer, not oral cancer. A different form of cancer, but you know, is it a gene thing, right? Like we just have that mutation. So, and then there's a lot of guilt attached to it.

What, why him? Why not me? We have the same gene pool. Why, um, why him at a younger age when he was so healthy? What am I passing down to my children? If I have a grandmother and a brother? What am I passing down to my kids? Uh, what if I get it, you know, because it's in my genetics. What's gonna happen to my children?

What could I have done to change the narrative? Um, and so, you know, I did, couldn't help my parents, [00:31:00] couldn't help my manu, so there's a lot of guilt attached. And so this is what I do. It's like I couldn't say Manu and I cannot go back and change it. There is no sense in blaming. But I can change the future and, and make a difference.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I love that. And you know, I connect with that and I think that's amazing that you brought this up because it's a topic that all of you who are listening bring up all the time. Like, I'm going through so much guilt, I feel so much guilt. So thank you for being so raw and open about that and kind of explaining, you know, how you felt with your brother and your family and your parents, and.

Now, you know, you can't change anything. You can't, we can't go back. And I think that's kind of a turning point for us when we're feeling the guilt and all of that. And then finding an outlet which you've done and I can connect with, because now I feel like, you know, I'm like, okay, I feel I had like a turning point a couple [00:32:00] years in and I was like.

I, I can't feel guilty anymore. I need to live for him and me. And I feel like so connected to your story because even though our losses are different, I feel you doing that. So tell us a little bit about the, the work you've done, because I know you finished and published his book. So tell us a little bit about that.

'cause you're, you're out there, you're talking at different events, you're, I mean, you're doing so much. I know we connected on social media, so I love watching your stuff when it pops up. But tell us a little bit about this journey. You've published his book.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: So his book was something that he was working on while, you know, 'cause he had sold his practice. He was single, he didn't have kids, he didn't have an outlet and in the midst of Covid. So that writing was his outlet. That's, and he was such a gifted writer. And he talks about raw moments about, you know, he's sitting on a hospital bed, nothing but a gown on, and all the accolades in the world couldn't help him as he lay alone watching the [00:33:00] world that.

Go, you know, do their thing. And he was no longer allowed to participate in it anymore. And he talks from a point of peace. He had made peace with his, um, journey. He was okay with dying. He was like, I'm not gonna go without a fight. And so he kept writing and he told me I wanna be published. So I, when I saw him in December, he showed me his writings and, you know, he would share.

He was also writing for a dental town magazine. He actually, that's a magazine for dentists. And why I bring that up is because he was featured on the cover story as a, um, for his practice that he did from start in Calgary. And he, he also talked about his cancer journey, you know, like a shoemaker whose shoe's broken.

So he talked, he was very vocal and very, um. Forthcoming with his, you know, cancer diagnosis. So it was his story. He started it, sharing about it, and that was his first time publicly. And then he started writing these blogs and I [00:34:00] found him a publisher. And I told him in February, I'm like, you know, I got you a publisher.

Let's go. Uh, because I wanted to see it in his hand, like I wanted him to see it. And he is like, no, I have time. I'm gonna write more. I'm like, keep going. So I let him get going and then. I even told him, I'm like, do you feel like you are riding a car and you know you enjoy cars and you enjoy the Porsche and you go out with your friends, but is that something that you feel in control of because you're behind the wheel and life you don't have a control over because you know you're not on the steering wheel.

And he's like, no, I've just learned my lessons. I don't care about the control anymore. It is what it is, and I've made peace with it. So when he died, I entered his house. Um, he died on a Sunday. I entered his house on a Tuesday, and in the mail was the Dentaltown magazine where he talked about his cancer journey.

He wrote another article, which I put in the [00:35:00] book, and it was about leaving dentistry this way out. You know, how cancer gave him a permission to leave dentistry where he didn't enjoy the profession for whatever reasons. And my mom looked at that and she's like, well, he found his way out of life even. And I walked in and there was everything there.

You know, his blanket. His unfinished Lego dish, dirty dishes from Friday night food in the, you know, he was so particular, like he never ate chocolate. He loved food. He was such a foodie and he would save all his candy and chocolate. He's like, after cancer 'cause he was so particular not eating sugar during his cancer treatment.

So everything was there and then he um, his medication. The sun rose. You know, life is continuing and you feel like everything stopped and you want the world to just stop for a second so you can even process the reality of what you have. And that's why the BA Book's [00:36:00] title came, life Interrupted, and he called it his doctor through a Survival Guide.

And, you know, I, I sat down, opened up his laptop, and you know, he says, I don't have to have anybody read this. I'm perfectly fine. My soul is at peace. But I'm like, no, this needs to be shared with the world. He had so much wisdom in there as his young age. He was an old soul. He was young in human years, but an older soul.

And I'm like, no, this is, the world needs to see this. And then I wrote the epilogue, which was. My perspective that he was more than the cancer that took him and how he became who he became. And that's where the book came from. So, yeah. And you know, it's, it's done pretty okay. And yeah, I share it. I share it with, um, everyone, the world

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah. Yeah, and and you guys can grab it in the show notes here too, and it's on our website and I think it's, I think that's so beautiful because you were encouraging him to write. And [00:37:00] supporting him. And then you, did you use that same publisher to publish? Is that who you Yeah,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: because he died in March and I had this book published in print in August, like it

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: go-getter, woman. After my own heart over here. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: And it was a closure. Right? Now I have something tangible. It's actually right here. It's like this, we created this together. It's physical. You know, I don't have other family. This is it. You know, my parents go, then you. That's it. That's. That's all I got. And so I don't have his kids to look at and you know, remember him bit with, it's this book, it's his words, that was his legacy.

And we created something together that we couldn't, you know, he's not gonna plan. We're not gonna plan big, monumental, you know, parents' 50th or birthdays or weddings. We're not gonna have any of that. [00:38:00] This is it.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: But I think, and, and for those of you who are just listening instead of watching, um, I love the cover too, by the way. I, so, like my brother, I don't know if you've noticed on my cover art, but like it's trees as well and like your cover has trees and mountains and like my brother and I are both very earthy and so I just connect with that.

So when I saw your book and we started talking about you coming on the show and, you know, we put our book on the site and stuff that you guys of course can order. Um, I was just like, I love this. I so connect with this. It's, it's, I,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: There's a story there too

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Mm-hmm.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: that's from, uh, Jasper, the, uh, Banff National Park. 'cause that's where he used to kayak. And so I wanted, and then that's where he felt at peace, you know, with nature, with being by the water. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I love how there's so much depth in everything that you've done with him and the book, and, and I totally get what you're saying, like, I relate to you so much because, you know, my brother never got married, never had [00:39:00] kids. Um, so for me doing this work and doing the show, my brother was, I'm pretty extroverted.

So imagine someone even more extroverted. It's hard to imagine, but he was, and so. That I feel like I've done this for him and I do this for him, and, um, it's important. It's very fulfilling. Very fulfilling. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: It's, yeah, because then you don't feel that their loss was in vain. You know? It's not, there's a purpose and, and I think having that purpose, you know, connecting with people and giving them some sort of connectedness and not making them feel alone in their journey. Has so much value that it's, it keeps going.

It keeps you, you know, coming for the new day. Otherwise, life can be pretty down.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Yeah. No, I, I agree. I, again, I love everything that you've done. I'm curious too, 'cause I know again, you, you have the book that you, he wrote and you, you [00:40:00] know, finished and I love that. Talk to us a little bit about what we should be aware of though, because this is not, I. Again, something we've talked about on the show before, oral cancer.

So what are things that we should be doing to be aware of this? And I mean, we've talked about different things that can potentially cause it and, but I think it's good to talk about the awareness too, because that's such a passion of yours as well.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Yes, so awareness. I, you know, served as, uh, the American Dental Association's Wellness Ambassador got featured, you know, internationally. Um. I actually spoke as a keynote, um, for the first ADA's, um, first oral cancer summit. Um,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Congratulations. That's so exciting to bring awareness to this. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: and it's, you know, it's just telling people because people are like, you can die from, you know, tongue cancer or oral ca and it's just bringing that awareness.

It's just like you would do a breast [00:41:00] exam at home. And you're looking for lumps, you know, check your mouth, like whether it's painful or not, for anything that's non-healing. Maybe you bit your tongue or maybe you brush too hard in your gut, or you got a sore in your mouth or something. It should heal within two weeks.

And if it doesn't, whether it hurts or not, you know. Go into the dentist and get it evaluated and get a biopsy. 'cause the quicker the biopsy, the quicker we and more conservative the treatment. Even if you're, you know, you have braces in your mouth or you got a new appliance and it's rubbing against your cheek or your tongue, you can get that adjusted.

If the lesion goes away, great. If not, we gotta check because yes, the biopsy is invasive and it hurts, and maybe a day off from work or whatever, but. You know, what's the price of that versus a price of life, right? Like you find out earlier is better. And, um. Just visiting your dentist, you know, don't wait till it hurts because just like a cavity doesn't hurt until it's gotten bigger and it's into the nerve chamber in the center of the tooth, [00:42:00] just like that, you know, you're not aware unless you get it checked out.

So some areas are kind of hard to see, like the back of your throat. You may not be like looking underneath your tongue, but, um, like the floor of the mouth underneath your tongue, the on the sides of your tongue, those are kind of like the more prominent areas. Uh, of course certain habits. Like smoking vaping.

That's a big one, especially in the young population. I have, I have teenage boys and trust me, there's vaping going on in high school and middle schools in the bathroom. So, um, that's a big proponent. Or people who are chewing tobacco or putting, you know, smokeless and tobacco in their, um, all these are risk factors combined with alcohol.

HPV, get the vaccine, vaccinate your kids, and, um. These are ways you can protect yourself. If you're out in the sun a lot, like you love to garden, or you're a construction worker, or you know you are a golfer, whatever you are out in extended periods of time, just like you would put [00:43:00] sunscreen, put lip balm to protect your lips from skin cancer and from oral cancer on the lips.

So there's a lot you can do as preventative forms and then just, you know, going in for your regular checkups and, and be. Aware of your body and tell your doctor, like, yeah, I'm having like a node, like I feel like a lump, but it's only on one side. Anything unilateral, right? So something that you got a cold, you might feel like your lymph nodes are inflamed and you feel like your sore throat, but if something persistent over time, especially on one side, like if you stick your tongue out in the mirror, it should, you should be straight.

Like that. But if it deviates only to one side and you're like, oh, my ear hurts too, you know, these are some warning signs that you gotta get checked out.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: If something doesn't feel right. Right. It's probably not right. That's kind of, kind of the vibe there. Yeah. Um, no, thank you for sharing all of that with us because again, I want to bring awareness to this and I think it's, you know, the more we [00:44:00] know, the more we know. Right. And I think that's important. But like, this is, um, this is something that, you know, when you were explaining earlier, like it gets caught really late.

And so when you're going to the dentist. The expert here should know this. Of course. Um, will they, like, would they notice it right away? Like if you were to, okay, so if you're getting regular checkups too, like you're, you're in good shape. Right. It's really when we start to not have people look at us, do our regular cleanings, be aware of what's potentially not feeling right.

So just being aware is important. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: yeah. And we live in the world of technology. You know, I have intro roll cameras. I take pictures and I show it up on the computer. I'm like, look, this is what I see. And you know, let's have you come back in two weeks. If it goes away, wonderful. If it doesn't go away, and it goes, now it's become bigger or whatever.

Okay, you see it now it's gone worse. Let's get you in. You know? So, um, yeah. Just talk to talk to your doctor and

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: And that two [00:45:00] week. I think that's a great thing for people to know too. Two weeks if something hurts in your mouth or if you feel something and it's still there two weeks, like that's good too because I think a lot of people, you know, some people just ignore and then some people really freak out. You know, like we have different personality types. Yeah. Yeah. Um, talk to us a little bit about some of the other stuff you're doing 'cause you were talking to us about, um, I mean, congratulations on keynoting. That's so cool. I think I saw that as well. Um, but yeah, talk to us a little bit 'cause I know you have some coaching stuff, some other things going on in your website that of course we're gonna put in the show notes here and you can find it on our website right now as well.

The surviving siblings.com. But tell us a little bit about what you're up to. 'cause it's not just the book, it's not just speaking, but you're also doing some other stuff. So tell us about that.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: So one of the things is talking about oral cancer in the sense of educating healthcare providers so people can join in, because oral cancer goes beyond just getting diagnosed. It changes the way you look, way you talk, where you [00:46:00] eat, your nutrition changes. These patients have a lot of PTSD because the way they greet the world is now altered.

Um, you know, the parts of their face are missing or they don't have teeth anymore. So discussing, giving that oral systemic link, like how medically and medical professionals don't talk, spend a lot of time learning about the mouth, you know, it's kind of separate and unfortunately, you know, it's one and the same thing.

Whatever we put our diet is important. And how, you know, having good oral health is important for our guts and it's. Important for our heart, it's important for dementia. Like it's associated with all of these. If you're trying to get pregnant, you need to have a good oral health and, um, you know, you can spread cavity.

So, so talking about oral cancer, giving that, or full treatment dimensional, and that's called my, uh, my course online. And the other aspect as I was dealing through grief. As a healthcare provider, I took off time with moneys. I actually took off three weeks from work, uh, two weeks [00:47:00] behind the funeral. One week I had to mandatory quarantine back in New York and with my dad.

Recently he passed, so suddenly I had a full load of patients. I flew, you know, on a Friday not knowing what's happening and my dad passed and I'm having to plan a funeral. I took a whole week off and then to fly back and see patients. You know, the next day

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Back to life.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: back to life. Life keeps going. And so, and you know, it's like the analogy of we're like tow trucks, right?

We're helping, or as healthcare professionals, we're always, we put our needs aside to take care of your patient. Right? We, we do so much. Um, and then who helps? Who tows the tow truck? That's broken, right? So if you're feeling empty with grief and empty, like, oh my God, this tragedy happened and here's a patient complaining about, oh my bite's, you know, this is, oh, I have a, and you know, to be relative, yes, the toothache is, it hurts and it's not [00:48:00] comfortable.

And it may be, but you know, you're losing a whole life here and you're dealing with that and your dynamics has changed. So how do you show up for people? Not lose yourself, you know, not being empty inside and you really can't pour out of an empty cup. You know, it's, you just have to be, um, in the right mind.

And dentistry is such a lonely profession. We practice in our own little bubble. I. So there's a higher suicide rate as it is. It's a very demanding profession. We're dealing with small spaces. We have the tongue cheek and the weight patient can move. So, and we are dealing with very, very millimeters of, and so to be in this profession and channeling grief, I found it even more isolating.

And so I started grief coaching for healthcare professionals as just. A person to walk alongside that don't feel isolated. Grief shouldn't be, and you know this so well. Grief isn't a journey to be traveled alone and you'd regress back [00:49:00] sometimes in those elements of grief. Um, you know, I always say I bear the unseen scars of cancer and how cancer affects the whole family.

And my family's a living testament of it. And it really strips you from a lot of what. Future you imagine, to what actually transpired and how do you make sense of it. And so that's my journey of grief that I share with others, and I talk about it, and I coach people to help as a healthcare professional.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I think that's wonderful. I, I, I knew you were doing that, but I wanted you to share about it, but I think that's really wonderful and I, I love when people find like a niche as well, because I think. You can relate so well to other healthcare providers and meet them wherever they're at in their journey.

And you've had, I mean, you've experienced, I mean, it must be so intense to be a dentist in this industry and losing your brother to oral cancer. I mean, it's like so intense, right? Like just going through that [00:50:00] and so, and then you've also lost your, you know, father very suddenly. So there's just. So many aspects of your grief journey that I know you have.

I mean, just in this episode you shared so much insight, but I'm sure as you're doing grief coaching for these folks and you are really connecting with them, and you're right, we, we don't wanna walk this alone. And there's a lot of great resources out here and I love that message because I think when I was walking the grief journey alone.

It was horrible and it's horrible in general, but when I started to find other people

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Hmm.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: like you and like all the great people that come on the show or come to our group or our events and things like that, things really shifted for me. So I think it's really amazing what you're doing because we just wanna know we're not alone on this journey.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Yes. And you're right. You felt alone. And because again, sibling loss, I don't think is something that is talked about. And you know, my parents had accumulative, you know, joint loss of the son and they [00:51:00] got each other. I'm like, what do I talk? I don't even have,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: You're like, hi, I'm here too.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: Yeah, I'm dying to, and you know, who do you like?

You watch your, like, I watch my husband interact with his sibling and I see, you know, nieces and nephews and I'm like, you know, my, one of my friends, I remember she told me how her sister is pregnant and I started crying and, and she's like, why are you crying? And I'm like. I'm happy for you that you get to experience this, but it just, you know, it's one of those things, that moment where you're like, this will never happen for me.

And even though I was entitled to it, right, it was my birthright. I had a brother, this was my journey. I was supposed to be an aunt. And you know, my kids will say like, we don't have any more cousins that are younger than us, you know, and. I had those things to give to them and I couldn't. And so, you know, you have these little things and even though, and you know, and you know this, even though you may have many siblings, the relationship [00:52:00] between siblings is very different.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: Oh, yes,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: You know that. So, you know, and so it's not like, oh yeah, you lost the same brother. Your grief is very different because your relationship was different. And it's the same with parents, and it's the same with grandparents. It's, it's a different and to be validated and to be seen and heard. And I think that's what people, and that's, you know, you've created this community is people seen, people feel seen and heard and validated that yes, what they went through is big and it matters.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: It is big and it does matter, and I just, I'm so grateful for you coming on the show, supporting the show, and sharing all of this with us. I feel like I learned so much. I love episodes where I feel like. I learned a whole lot, so thanks for sharing that with us. Talk to us about where we can connect with you.

Obviously it's gonna be in the show notes as well, but tell us where you are on social media, your website, all that good stuff, and it'll be in the show notes for you guys too.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: So I ha I'm [00:53:00] on LinkedIn, Paul Duma car, or, um, the website. Do a good job. DUA, that's a pun of my maiden

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I love that, by the way. I think it's so cute. Yeah,

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--guest488807--parul-dua-makkar-1: One who gets the credit for it, but he coined it. Um, so I'll always give him the credit. Even the book, like when he, I was publishing it and you know, when I was printing it and I told my husband, I'm like, should I put my name in the front?

He's like, no, you didn't write it. I'm like, true. So I'd never put his name in the front. It's on the inside cover when I write it. But yes, so the website do a DUA good job. And uh, same thing on Instagram. Do a good job. Yeah.

2025-03-06--t11-33-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion-1: I love that. That's so cute. And then of course we'll have the link to your book and, and your brother's book, I should say, and um, also to connect with you directly. Thank you so much for being here, Pearl. I appreciate you and sharing so openly and honestly with us. I think it's been really wonderful. 

Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your [00:54:00] chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings Podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

And don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms. We're on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Surviving Siblings Podcast. All links can be found in the show notes, so be sure to check those out too. Thank you again for the support. Until the next episode, keep on surviving my surviving siblings.