Navigating Anticipatory Grief

Ep 8 Samantha

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Surviving Siblings podcast. I'm your host, maya Roffler. As a surviving sibling myself, I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November 2016. And after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story. And now it's your turn to share your stories.

[00:00:35] Maya: Today we have another amazing Surviving Sibling with us and I feel so lucky to have known you, Samantha, through most of your grief journey. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:48] Samantha: Thank you, Maya.

[00:00:49] Maya: I say it almost every episode. It's bittersweet when siblings come on the show, but your story is a really important one to talk about.

[00:00:56] And it's not really something I've talked a whole lot about on the show because it's involving losing your brother and a lot of anticipatory grief and losing your brother to cancer. And so this is something that I feel like I have more knowledge around, too. And it's a great time for us to talk about it.

[00:01:17] And. Shed a lot of light on it. Talk about your story. So Samantha, tell us a little bit about Chris, your relationship, paint that picture for us. So we understand your dynamic and who he is and was,

[00:01:31] Samantha: Okay, Chris is my was my older brother. I suppose they is and everybody app like how many siblings you have. I still say 3. 2 brothers. So there's 3 of us. He was my older brother by 5, 5 and a little bit more gear. And then we also had a younger have a younger brother, Robert. Chris and I were very close.

[00:01:53] Like ever I feel because even when we were little kids, even though there were five years apart we hung out there was a little bit of time in there when he became a teenager that we really didn't hang out And then we got close again and I don't know what else to say And we just had the great, a great relationship.

[00:02:10] He was the ideal older brother was there to protect me. Even though I could do it myself, he still stepped in when needed.

[00:02:19] Maya: Yeah.

[00:02:20] Samantha: he always took care of me. He, I had parents obviously, but we had a good family dynamic. My parents are still together. My older brother, I did find out before he passed that he was only my half sibling.

[00:02:35] Didn't even matter to me or my younger brother. I just, I always did question things. He really doesn't fully look like me. Whereas my younger brother, is like a twin. So there were just some questions, but I'm like, whatever. It's just genetics. I don't, whatever it is. But I didn't find out until the October before he died.

[00:02:58] So I think it was October. I can't remember exactly, but it was around right before we knew he was going to pass away.

[00:03:08] Maya: Yeah.

[00:03:10] Samantha: So

[00:03:10] Maya: How did you guys find? So tell us a little bit about that because it's very interesting this season. We have a lot of interesting family dynamics, which I think is helpful for people to know that, not everyone comes from this perfect cookie cutter, there's a lot of dynamics that go on with loss.

[00:03:24] So tell us a little bit about that real quick. Samantha, how did you guys Find Chris had no knowledge like tell us a little bit about how you found out

[00:03:33] Samantha: Chris knew since he was probably 17 or 18 because he was going to go into the service. I vaguely remember a fight between my parents and Chris. I had no idea what it was about. I just remember it was a big deal and Chris took off. He eventually came home, but I found out through his Or my ex sister in law, who was not a nice person and I had to tell my parents that she told me, and I don't know why she told me,

[00:04:08] Maya: and this was October and of course we're gonna Talk about it, but he passed in January and this is when he was actively dying and going through cancer, right? So she decides to tell you this Wow

[00:04:20] Samantha: And, ironically, my mom had said to me the night before, And my younger brother, me and daddy need to meet with you too. I'm like, Oh God, I already know what this is about because I had already known 

[00:04:34] Maya: your other brother. 

[00:04:35] Samantha: Yeah, I had already owned for a few days. Robert, sorry, I don't know if I should be saying his name, but he didn't know anything until I went to my parents house and I said, I need to talk to you tonight.

[00:04:48] And it was the night before she was going to, or they were going to tell him. And I don't even remember the conversation. But my mom, I was in the driveway of my parents house. I called my mom and said, I need to talk to you guys and I just remember my mom yelling out for my dad. Get out here. She knows.

[00:05:14] And then my younger brother came out. They let me in the house and I didn't really need to say anything because my parents knew that I knew. But of course, my younger brother was still like. What is happening here? And they had to tell him and come to find out that my brother never wanted to tell us he didn't want anything to hurt our relationship with each other because we all were pretty darn close.

[00:05:42] And my dad didn't want any either of us to know because he felt like the dynamics were going to change because Chris was our half brother. But the more I thought about it, I'm like, That wouldn't have changed anything no matter when I found out because he's been there all my whole life. He's still my brother.

[00:06:01] So that's the law is the short of the long story of the whole thing that I could remember at all 

[00:06:08] Maya: wanted to highlight that because it's something that happened during your brother actively dying. And, I think that, that's thing that's traumas that happened within the trauma of loss, right? And I, it is a part of your story. So I wanted to highlight that.

[00:06:24] So thanks for sharing. I know that's not an easy thing to share, but. Walk us through a little bit. You guys had this really, again, this beautiful family dynamic. I've always loved that about your story and how you've shared that. And, but tell us walk. I know that there's been difficulty with, the dynamic with the wife and all of that.

[00:06:43] There's a lot there, too. But. Walk us through where Chris was and his diagnosis and how all of that happened because I know this was a long journey It was not a one right and I think a lot of people will connect with this

[00:06:57] Samantha: so he was diagnosed in july of 2019 They told him it was that it wasn't too far in its esophageal cancer. It wasn't too far into the different layers of the esophagus and that they could do surgery. But he had to go through all these different things before the surgery could happen. And in September of 2019, he went through major surgery and I was scared I was going to lose him then.

[00:07:27] So he, in that time, his fiancee decided they wanted to get married. I just want to throw that in there in August, a month before his major surgery. So they removed they saw part of the esophagus where they thought the lesion Was advancing to and then they removed part of the stomach and then they basically sewed them back together to put it in.

[00:07:51] Basic term. I remember walking in to the hospital when I saw him then and he looked like he was dead then and it was scary as hell. 

[00:08:02] Maya: Take us back for a second. Samantha when he got the diagnosis What did that look like for your family? Did you did he call you? What did that look like? How did you guys find out about that? And then You know, we'll jump back forward, but I just I'm curious about that because we all talk about the call, right?

[00:08:19] And we all talk about how that is and I think something to point out in anticipatory grief is there are multiple calls. 

[00:08:27] Samantha: Yeah. You hit it 

[00:08:29] Maya: this is 

[00:08:30] Samantha: on dot. Yeah, this is the first call. Yeah, my mom actually called me. I remember I remember her texting me and saying I need to talk to you and I was out to lunch with friends from work or whatever. And. I called her and I tried to be by myself. I felt like this is weird.

[00:08:47] She doesn't text me like that as I got on the phone with her and she told me, it's hard to remember everything from way then, but I remember saying your brother's been diagnosed with cancer, but they're going to do surgery. I was like, okay. All right. And then, Like things just kept going quick during from during july to september and I just remember going to Appointments with him because at that time I was his medical proxy.

[00:09:20] So I needed to be there for decisions and he trusted me with that. So that was the first call and that's what I remember about that. Like I think i've locked a lot of that part out I don't remember what I did after that You

[00:09:35] Maya: I think you like that again. This is, these are all these points that we want to talk about and bring up in your story and anticipatory grief. And there's the, that initial call and there are subsequent calls. And it's this kind of bookend calls and we'll talk about all of that. But, That's a big part of your story too, is you, at that time, went into kind of what a lot of us with the sudden loss go through okay, roll our sleeves up, how are we gonna, how are we gonna handle things, right?

[00:10:02] That was your, it's interesting in Anticipatory Grief because you go through that process. In a different, way. It's prior, right? You're going through a before. So you're in, from what I understand from your story, you're in the mode where you're like, okay, let's handle this.

[00:10:18] Let's go. We're going to the doctors. We're going to get surgery. We're going to, you're in take care of business mode,

[00:10:22] right? 

[00:10:23] Samantha: you're right. And that's how I am. Like, when something needs to be done, I take care of business. September, he had the surgery. The doctor said that he's going to live a long, happy life. Great. Went on with everything. Recovery was tough. But he got better, but he only had a small bit of a stomach.

[00:10:43] So it was like weird seeing my brother only eat like a bird. But he was happy. He was doing great. 

[00:10:48] Maya: And how long was he recovering in the hospital after his surgery?

[00:10:52] Samantha: in the hospital, I think for a couple months. I can't remember exactly. I just remember taking care of him at his house. That's all I remember. I don't remember being at the hospital too much until later on when things really happened.

[00:11:07] So he went home.

[00:11:10] Maya: We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings podcast. I'm your host, Maya Roffler. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor. Are you feeling lost in your grief journey? Perhaps even stuck? As a surviving sibling, I too have felt lost, stuck, confused, angry fill in the blank.

[00:11:34] I've felt so many emotions along my grief journey. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about too. Along the way, I found that what I needed was answers to all of my unanswered questions, validation, permission to feel everything that I was feeling at different times, and ultimately, I needed guidance.

[00:11:55] That's why I created the Grief Guide for Surviving Siblings. This is a 23 page guide that guides you, the surviving sibling, along your grief journey, written and created by a surviving sibling for surviving siblings. Click the link in the show notes to get your copy or visit the surviving siblings. com where you can also find more show information, merchandise for surviving siblings like you and more resources and support.

[00:12:28] think something important, too, and about what you said is that, the doctor was telling you everything is great. He's going to live a great life. But there's something interesting where you walked in and just you knowing him so well that you just shared. You're like, you just didn't look like himself.

[00:12:46] That's like an initial, again, another initial gut feeling that we get when we're really connected to someone. So I just wanted to circle back to that because that's a moment to in this

[00:12:56] Samantha: So when I walked in, now that you're bringing back more memories, I walked in and he had all these two, the tube out of his mouth and all the IVs and all this stuff. And. I don't know there were bells and stuff, I remember that, and I remember turning around to my husband and just crying he's what is wrong?

[00:13:15] He's okay, I'm like, but he doesn't look okay. He looked dead already, so that was difficult, but weeks went on and he got better with it. So it was, we were looking good for a long time because we wrote out 2020 with covid, but he didn't get a scan because he kept getting pushed back because of covid and this was all through the VA too.

[00:13:40] So they didn't feel safe bringing him in. So he didn't get scanned. He probably didn't get a recent scan, I would say, until fall of 2020, I think it was.

[00:13:53] Maya: Wow. So basically a year

[00:13:54] went by. That's a long time after such a significant

[00:13:57] Samantha: Right. And then 2021 came and he was developing, which they knew was there, a hernia near the site of surgery, but it had already been there, but they didn't repair it when they were in.

[00:14:12] Don't know why. Never asked any questions.

[00:14:15] Maya: that was my first thought. I'm like, why? Why wouldn't they?

[00:14:18] Samantha: I don't know and I

[00:14:19] didn't think right. The only thing I could think of because I do have a medical background is that they didn't want to keep him under anesthesia longer than he already had because it was a long surgery. I

[00:14:30] Maya: can't imagine. Yeah.

[00:14:31] Samantha: I say it was like, 8 to 10 hours. My mom remembers exactly how long, but I can't remember.

[00:14:37] I just drew her. I went to work because I had to go to work because it was the only thing to keep me going. And my mom updated me throughout the day. So don't know why it wasn't repaired. So it started getting bigger in 2021. So he went and got another scan. I would say it was in spring. Yeah, it was definitely in spring.

[00:14:59] And then that was when they decided they were going to go in and repair. The hernia because it was starting to affect a lot of things going on. He barely was eating because of it. And then he had surgery and he was fine for the surgery in June. The end of June, July, August, October, near the end of October, he started getting sick again.

[00:15:23] He wasn't looking good. 

[00:15:26] Maya: So

[00:15:26] we're two years after the surgery now.

[00:15:28] Samantha: yeah, two years. And I wasn't reading into it. I was like, Oh, maybe it's just from the hernia. Maybe he just said this healed because of that being repaired. And like he had a surgery two years prior and now he just had another surgery. But Halloween of 2021 was when It really went down.

[00:15:49] We went trick or treating not my brother. He stayed home. He didn't feel well. And I go home with my kids. I was actually with his wife and her kid. And after 8 o'clock that night, I get a phone call from her and she's frantic and she says, he's throwing up blood and I'm like, this is it because knowing the medical background.

[00:16:17] But if someone has cancer and the blood vomiting happened, getting close, but we didn't think he was. It was happening again nobody said, oh, the cancer is spreading. They never said anything about that. And it just happened that it spread to his liver and I even said to him I was waiting and sitting in the room where they go and put the port in for the chemo and stuff and I said, I can get Matt and see if I can give you part of my liver.

[00:16:50] And he was like, you would do that? And I'm like, yeah, I would do that. Like, why wouldn't I do that? It ended up he was way too far advanced to have that done. So they were trying chemo. And during this process, he actually was switched from Rutgers to Sloan Kettering because we didn't feel like Rutgers was taking the best care of him with, because he was VA.

[00:17:15] So he was transferred over and we didn't feel like. They were doing enough. So Sloan Kettering actually had a better outlook for us. They were like, we're going to give him chemo and all this other stuff. And we're going to support him. We're going to do scans. And they had been seeing something like a cloud on his liver or a couple of them, but they couldn't tell us it was definitely cancer tumor.

[00:17:38] And I don't even remember when they told him that they were tumors that it had spread. To deliver

[00:17:47] Maya: Tell us a little bit. Smith. If you go back for just a second. So this all happened on Halloween, 

[00:17:54] Samantha: it was through Halloween. Yeah, from Halloween through to Thanksgiving. So it was 

[00:18:02] Maya: slow. But prior to that, he was just feeling kinda not so great, had the hernia nothing was showing up on scans, we weren't concerned, and then, all of a sudden, it's back, it's spread, and it's you're off to the races trying to figure this out from Halloween to, that was an intense, not even month that you guys are doing all this, okay, yeah, I just wanted to put that in perspective, because I think, Again, another part of your story that's really important is some of it is prolonged, some of it is very fast, too, so it's, that's, yeah, you've got two dynamics in your story, so I think a lot of different people will relate to your story because you do have the anticipatory grief aspect of it and, there was this process, it also then, when It turned fast and that was a difficult part.

[00:18:46] And so you guys moved him from one care place to the next and he starts chemo, but they found these tumors. So what are, what is the prognosis? What are they saying? What are they think? How long is he going to live? Are they throwing this all at you? Walk us through that.

[00:19:03] Samantha: not told us and any anticipation of how long he had to live. They just wanted to get chemo in them. They want to treat them at stone countering and. That's what they were doing. So he ended up that year in Sloan Kettering in Manhattan for Thanksgiving. And he was getting chemo and then he came home the next week and they had told him you'll come back.

[00:19:28] We'll do more scans. We'll do more chemo. And then he went back the beginning of December and they did scans, but then he had another appointment. I remember specifically, it was December 8th. I kept texting him all day. I'm like, what's going on? And he's I'll talk to you when you get home. And then. On my way home, he texts me, and he says that I need you, Robert, and Mommy and Daddy to come over, and I'm like, oh crap.

[00:20:02] I knew then, and they had told him that day that they couldn't do anything more, and that he had six to twelve weeks left. Yeah. I

[00:20:20] Maya: So you and the fam, everybody goes over and he has this conversation with you guys, but you being the sister and so close and so in touch and you just now, yeah,

[00:20:29] going 

[00:20:30] Samantha: but I wouldn't accept it, because I was like, oh, we need to do more. Why aren't they doing this more? They need to take you, and they still need to try the chemo, and he kept saying to me, it's not going to do anything. It's too far advanced. It was stage 4 at that time, but I cannot still to this day cannot believe how it went from he was okay to stage 4.

[00:20:52] It's what happened in between? Like, where was the in between?

[00:20:56] Maya: that is, yeah, that is the question that I wanted us to touch on to what did you ever. Get those answers. Did you ever before we because we're going to keep going, of course, did you ever get any insight to that? Because it just seems and also part two for this question is, when all of this happened initially in 2019.

[00:21:16] Did they give you guys any indication of what could have caused this?

[00:21:20] Samantha: They weren't sure. The things are that came up is he had GERD with the acid reflux. He also was in the Navy. So he's subjected to whatever he's subjected to because he went to Iraq and all that. I smoking's up there. He smoked for a good part of his life. So they said that it could be any one of those things.

[00:21:42] But they couldn't pinpoint exactly which one, obviously.

[00:21:47] Maya: Which I'm sure is extremely frustrating to feel like, okay, yes, we all have vices and things that we do in life, but if we can't pinpoint something, you're like, oh, God there's just, it's about getting the answers to the questions that we want. And we talk about that all the time, right?

[00:22:04] And I think that's a part of this too. And I think it's important to touch on that as well. So walk us through what happens. Next he has this conversation with you guys. And what was the plan? What did you guys decide to do? Because I think that's something that happens.

[00:22:21] Families will be like, okay, whoever's, caring or involved will be like, okay, this is the plan. This is what we're going to do. What was next? Can

[00:22:28] Samantha: What was next was I found out I was no longer his medical proxy. It was his wife. Of course that was going to happen, but she didn't have any knowledge of any of this stuff. And I have extensive background in medical because I was a vet tech and was going to go to vet school. And now I teach a lot of stuff.

[00:22:47] So I was shocked that he did that. And I'm still confused as to why he did that. Knowing that he didn't know any of this stuff. He would call me and he'd ask all these medical questions. I don't even understand what's happening or what all this means. And I'd explain it to her. And obviously he did it because it, she was his wife.

[00:23:07] So she, the plan was, she was pretty good when all of this was going down. Like it wasn't that horrible. She wasn't nasty. She wasn't mean. He did take into account my considerations and he ended up on palliative care. At home. And he had nerve

[00:23:25] Maya: tell people what that is, Samantha? Would you mind if

[00:23:27] Samantha: palliative care is like the step before hospice. He's not ready to die or the person's not ready to die or they're not at that point.

[00:23:37] So they're just taking care of them like you would be taking care of in the hospital when you're sick So that's what palliative care is. I do not remember when he got switched over to hospice I have no idea because it was it's a blur still and I wish I had written things down, but I didn't write him down

[00:23:56] Maya: interesting that you've just said that because I just had a conversation with another guest that you'll hear this season and she was saying one of the best pieces of advice. She's I never would have thought this myself. One of the best pieces of advice that I got was a friend was like, start writing everything down right now, right?

[00:24:12] Everything down. So that's a bad takeaway. This season too, I guess is write everything down. And I, and me personally, I did write quite a bit down only because I was forced to do so because of things that were happening. But I think this is great advice because it's applicable to any type of loss that you're going through when you're losing your sibling.

[00:24:30] Write it down even if you're like, why am I writing this silly little detail down? I've found his hat in the corner over here or like just some silly stuff because it could jog your memory about so many things. So I appreciate you sharing that. That's, I think, important. But. Okay, and thanks for sharing with what that is as well.

[00:24:47] Because for me, I really didn't know what that was. I didn't know what that was until about two years ago and sometimes people will still write it to me and I'll be like, what are you talking? And then I'm like, oh yeah, I'll just carry it. Got it. Got it. But I think it's these are just all the things that if you haven't been through it, you don't know.

[00:25:02] And that's really what I love bringing to light on this show is you guys sharing these things and educating other people about it. So, He's going through this process and at what point does he go into the hospital? At what point is, or walk us through that? He's, goes up to hospice.

[00:25:20] Like you said, you don't have an exact memory. Again, our advice to you guys, write stuff down. 

[00:25:26] Samantha: right, suck down If you want to remember it though, that's if you want to remember it I mean you may want to later on like I wish I had written it down now because then i'd be able to remember the sequence of things, better but he never went back into the hospital hospice came to the house and going back he was not on hospice for long You His wife knew when they needed to come in and I think he knew and told her because he obviously was still he was still talking and coherent up until 4 or 5 days before he passed away.

[00:26:01] And the plan was just he wanted to die at home. And that was the end of it. He didn't want to be put in hospital. He didn't want anything else to be done. Obviously, he was on DNR anyway, because there was nothing they could do to save him because of the extent of the cancer at that point. That's where we were.

[00:26:20] And we sat from December 8th ish until he passed in January 22nd, 2022.

[00:26:31] Maya: two, two, two. Yeah, it's a really important date for you that I know that just passed. You say you're over your two year hump, which we're going to talk about that too. It's a big thing to talk

[00:26:41] about. Big things to talk about. So yes, happy heavenly birthday to Chris. And So tell us a little bit about what happened because, he wasn't on hospice for very long.

[00:26:54] So we talk about how we get these calls, right? And you've gotten the initial call. You've gotten you've gotten several calls like, Hey he's not doing well again. He's going through this. Chemo is a possibility. This is happening. Hey, guess what, guys? The December 8th call, right? All of this come over.

[00:27:11] And, this is You know, I'm getting my 12 week, give or take, this is what could have been my life. And so there's. Other calls that happen as well, walk us through what that was like, because from December 8th to the 22nd of January, I'm sure it was extremely difficult as well, because it's just you're waiting for that call.

[00:27:33] Samantha: Yeah. The waiting for it because the anticipatory brief it's coming, but you don't know when it's coming. I spent a good amount of time there after work and I feel bad to this day. Like my life for those, however many weeks it was getting home, getting showered, going over to my brother, helping my sister in law out with him.

[00:27:56] And. Helping take care of him and giving her the break that he needs because he ended up working from home during that time a lot. And if she went anywhere, she would make sure that I was around to actually go over there. My weeks were spent being there and felt normal because we, Chris and I were still watching movies.

[00:28:16] He still was playing the video games and, my older son was playing the video games with him and he was getting annoyed at my younger son because he was only like. Five at the time so he was like not he had no idea what was going on And he just knew we were over at chris's house hanging out whatever like we usually do so I don't recall any calls major calls during that time, which is odd.

[00:28:42] Maya: You were in a routine, so maybe not, right? You, that was what you did. And so again, I think a lot of people will connect with this because you do get in that routine and I've read more books on anticipatory grief and things like that and just talk to people that have experienced it. So you get in this care.

[00:28:57] Taker routine and you were a caretaker for him. And so you had a schedule, like you got up, you went to work, you showered, you went over there, you took care of your family. There was a lot of things happening and you had a lot of responsibility at the same time, which I'm sure that was difficult with your family, right?

[00:29:13] Like your husband and your children, I'm sure was really tough.

[00:29:17] Samantha: Yeah. The only good thing I have is that the boys were two years younger and like my oldest still Says to me, I don't remember all that happened. He was He had just turned nine right out right before Chris passed away. And then my little one was only five. So he really doesn't have much of a memory at all.

[00:29:37] And I think that's okay because I'm glad that they don't remember him in that state that he was in. And then when he finally got the hospital bed in the house and we were hanging out over there at the hospital bed. But at some point I remember I was not taking them over there anymore. The calls that.

[00:29:54] I do remember now I'm like, going back with pretty much every morning I would call my sister in law, like, how did the night go? I am driving to work. Anything new? When's his next appointment with the doctors? So they can check whatever they check in his blood work and see how far advanced it is.

[00:30:12] But you're right. It was a routine. We knew it was coming, but he secretly hoping that it really wasn't going to come and all of a sudden he's going to be fine, but. In reality, he was not going to be fine. And we would say to him today you look pretty darn good. I think it was just in our mind oh, you're not as yellow today as you were yesterday, and that's what we always would judge him day on was what color is his skin? So

[00:30:41] Maya: That's a really interesting point that you bring up too is that, there's things that you guys were saying or like even telling yourself a narrative to oh, he looks better today. And. I'm curious if reflecting back, you're, you think now, like, he was just having a good day and that was just me giving myself hope because that's probably how you got through to the next day and the next 

[00:31:03] Samantha: Yeah. Yep. That's exactly what. Yep. I don't think it fully hit me that he was going to pass away for the week of him passing away because that week he started to. Slip into this weird fate and babbling about stuff. And the one thing I remember him saying to my mom was, I gotta go home and I see grandpa.

[00:31:33] So like that reality was like, oh my God. He's like in between right now. And he was so uncomfortable. Like he had spent so much time laying in that bed, but he was so uncomfortable. He kept getting up, sitting back down and I'd be like, do you need help? Do you want me to take you to the bathroom? Like all this stuff.

[00:31:52] And you die Wednesday night before you pass. I feel like. He said his goodbyes, and it took a full two days till he passed, and the last thing he did say to me the night before, he whispered to me that he wanted to die.

[00:32:12] Maya: Yeah, he was ready.

[00:32:14] Samantha: Yeah, even though in the beginning, he was like, why me? Why? Why did I have to do this?

[00:32:20] I finally got a wife, and I finally have a house, and now I have to leave it all.

[00:32:26] Maya: Yeah, that's so that's something that I've heard about and so I'm really glad that we're like getting into this part and like the week of his passing because and I know it's really hard to talk about and so I appreciate you sharing with all of us about it but it is something that my mom it's not really something I've talked about before but it's something my mom described about When she lost her father back in 2009, and he was older, he lives a very long life, almost 90 years, right?

[00:32:53] It's not the same thing at all. But, a lot of like hospice nurses and a lot of people talk about this, how like when it starts to get really close, there's almost like this transitional period. So I really love that you're sharing this with us, because this is so different than a lot of the other losses that we talk about on the show.

[00:33:13] And I want people to have information and knowledge and connect with your story, which I know they will, and understand that there's other complicated components to this. It's something I've heard a lot about, I'm actually quite fascinated by it, that during this process, and sometimes people say it lasts for a couple of weeks, but it's usually these hospice nurses, and my mom described it, and there's, It's like a, it's like a five to seven day period usually, somewhere in that, sometimes two weeks.

[00:33:40] It did, everyone's different. It's like grief. We're all different, right? But, interesting that you came in and you told very similar timeline that I've heard from other people, but, so he starts to see, and I think this regardless of what you're spiritual, like what you believe spiritually or religiously, I think it, this kind of story helps you open up to the reality that there is probably something on the other 

[00:34:04] Samantha: Even though I'm still not okay.

[00:34:07] There's no way I keep saying that, but when you bring that up and you say that I'm like, he was seeing our grandfather and I know he was seeing some other people, but I can't remember who exactly, but he specifically said, I see grandpa. And then he was also saying, that's right, my mom's father, but we didn't know my mom's father because he passed away when my mom was 12 of a heart attack

[00:34:31] Maya: So how did you feel about that? You must have been like, Whoa I can't imagine hearing my brother saying something like

[00:34:37] Samantha: right now. I'm like, whoa, because I didn't think about it. Then he saw grandpa Sam, what I could see him seeing grandpa who had passed away in 2009, but grandpa Sam we only have pictures of him.

[00:34:52] Maya: It's crazy.

[00:34:53] Samantha: It is.

[00:34:55] Maya: It's crazy. But I think it's one of my favorite parts of your story because it's really beautiful. And I think that's, something that we can look at they're not alone, right? Like people are waiting for you on the other side and whatever that means to you or whatever you interpret that is, right?

[00:35:08] Like if you're super religious and you believe in heaven or if you're more spiritual and you just think maybe there's possibility, whatever level of the spectrum that you're on. I think this is such a cool part of your story, right? Like in the pain, I like to find these little gifts that were given and I think I think it's good that we're talking

[00:35:25] about that because. How wild. How it's really cool that he saw your grandpa that he knew, but what a sign that he's seeing this grandfather that he didn't know. That's a huge sign. That would be to me, at least. I really love that. But it's also, I'm sure at the time at the time you were probably more thinking like, oh my god, like this is 

[00:35:45] Samantha: this is a, 

[00:35:46] Maya: it, this is, 

[00:35:47] Samantha: exactly what was going on in my head. This was my realization of the fact that he was taking a nap and they obviously weren't in the room and I couldn't see him. Now that I think about it, it was for real. He was saying that he saw that. Yeah.

[00:36:08] Maya: but yeah, but in the moment, you're thinking so many different things, like you said it's I'm sure it was just, that would be difficult, like putting myself in your shoes for that, because I don't You know, you're also like, you're with your brother and he's actively dying. So you're like, is this real?

[00:36:24] Is he really seeing these people? Is this a real thing? I'm sure that went through your mind too.

[00:36:28] Samantha: I had experienced death of my grandfather, grandpa, that he saw. And I remember him and my dad telling me things about how it was. He was actually in a hospice place, my grandfather. And my dad said that when he was there in the middle of the night, one night, my grandfather woke up at three o'clock.

[00:36:49] And said, what are you doing here? And there was absolutely nobody in the room. And when my brother started seeing things, it brought me back to that. I was like, and that's when I knew, I'm like, it's gonna be happening.

[00:37:04] Maya: Yeah.

[00:37:05] Samantha: I took off and I, it worked because I knew it was

[00:37:11] Maya: That's important too. Yeah. You knew, you were like, okay, I got to be here. So you were there. So walk us through those kind of last moments. What was that like? I'm sure it was so difficult and.

[00:37:21] Samantha: I felt like he did not want to totally pass away while I was there because he literally passed away. I left the house at 11 or 12 o'clock at night. His wife called after 7 a. m. and said that he had finally gone. I just the last word. still always stick with me that he wanted to die because he was in that much pain.

[00:37:44] Even though he wasn't showing that he was always in that much pain, I knew. I felt it.

[00:37:49] Maya: And that's a big thing to say, especially to your younger sister, and just be like, I'm ready. I'm ready to go. 

[00:37:54] I'm ready 

[00:37:55] Samantha: when December 8th, he was not ready to go. The realization to him was like, Oh my God, am I really going to die?

[00:38:02] Maya: Yeah. So when you see there's a lot of calls in this anticipatory grief journey, like now you're getting your call from your sister in law and so he's passed away. And what happens next for you guys? What did you guys, you're a tight knit family. So did you guys band together? I know there have been some highs and lows with your sister in law.

[00:38:26] So what transpired next for you guys?

[00:38:28] Samantha: So she told me she was not going to call my mom because her and my mom were constantly fighting and bickering over stupid things that she called, not my mom. Like her issues or whatever and maybe that's just how she was dealing with this. I just put it behind me I don't care anymore. But she had said she was not going to call my mom Could I call my mom?

[00:38:49] They said I had to gather myself up and I called her and then lo and behold She had mustered up the strength to call my mom. So after I called my mom I and she my mom I remember her saying what are we going to do? I'm like, We go over there. That's what we do. Like I literally just got dressed and I remember screaming through the house like I gotta go Get out of my way Chris is gone like dead And then I left the house and met my parents and my younger brother over there And he's only 10 was only 10 minutes down the street.

[00:39:26] So it wasn't far and I remember getting there And I actually sat by his bedside, and even though I'm like still in a weird spot spiritually with God and everything, I prayed for him as I did on the night leading up. I prayed for him. I prayed that his pain was gone and he didn't have to suffer anymore.

[00:39:57] And it took a while for the the hospice nurse came. I remember that she was asking questions and she pronounced them. And then it took a while for the funeral home to come to pick up his body, but we were there for pretty much all of the morning because they didn't take his body and pick 11 or so. And my sister in law had said, I don't want anybody in here when they take him. And my mom and I held hands and we're like, we're stay we

[00:40:33] Maya: Why did she, why do you think she didn't want anybody there?

[00:40:36] It was just, idea. I, she like, I could not understand her anymore. Like in that time of Chris passing away, I could not understand like her anger towards my mother. The stupid things she would blame my mother for, and she even knocked my mother out of the house for visiting her own son.

[00:41:00] well, 

[00:41:01] Samantha: I had lost patience with her too, and I didn't care why.

[00:41:04] She didn't want us there, but We stayed and the funeral home came in, the 2 guys, they were really nice and caring and my parents went out before they wheeled them out. My younger brother and I stayed and were behind him the whole time until they put him into the van to take him over to the funeral home.

[00:41:26] Um, robert and I stayed for a little while and they were really sweet. They let us stay and say our goodbyes even more. And then I decided to follow them over to the funeral home, but I had missed them taking them out and putting them, which probably is good because they probably didn't need to see any more of that.

[00:41:46] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:50] Maya: with him through all of this and yeah, I think it's just. It's, again, this is a different aspect of it and I think there's a certain time, and I think we all know internally okay, it's, this is the time, this is how I wanna remember him or her. And I think with anticipatory grief and dealing with, a loss like cancer, like what you have dealt with Chris, I think, you reach an internal point and that's only for you to know okay.

[00:42:18] I need to get some space from this and then, I think it's just different. It's also like choosing, do you want to see the body or not? Like different things like that, right? It depends on your loss type. You, do you guys have a funeral for him? What happens next?

[00:42:31] Samantha: We, there was a lot of fighting about that too. Up until the morning he died cause he wanted to be buried. He wanted a specific funeral home. He wanted to be buried in a specific spot, but money was not there because when he left the Navy, he got honorably discharged, but he told me.

[00:42:52] And my mom, I forgot to check the box for certain things like end of life and burial and all that stuff. So it totally ended up that he had to be cremated, which he did not want. It. And he ended up at the military cemetery that's 30 minutes from us. That was a big hard blow, but we did have a funeral like thing because he was already cremated.

[00:43:18] And at that point my, my. Ex sister of mine, we're not talking at all because she was screaming at me on the phone about pictures because I went to the funeral home myself to talk to the funeral director what can I bring in? What am I not allowed to do? And she said, you can bring in whatever you want, but I know his wife is bringing in video things. So she said, if you want to make the, the usual picture thing, you should be at the funeral. So she started fighting with me about that because she wanted to know who I put on the pictures or, and telling me the funeral is not about me. And it's not about my younger brother. And it's not about my parents, about Chris.

[00:44:04] I felt like she was making it more about herself. Like when the funeral happened, she was in the back of the room instead of being up front, like the family members usually do. Telling her life story and i'm like, I thought this was about my brother And it really wasn't that far of a distance because it was a small funeral home So I could hear some of the stuff and then some of my friends that were passing through Told us and my mom's friend told us to like she's back there like she's in a movie or something And which I was not surprised because that's how she went 

[00:44:37] Maya: And that's just, there's so many things to unpack with that because, it's interesting because what I found in my own story is that the people who try to control everything the most, that's their way. And I'm not giving her a pass at all. You know what, Samantha, but it, as you start to move in your grief journey, you start to realize that everyone grieves differently.

[00:44:59] And no, she, it's probably not the best way to grieve, to try to control those types of things, or try to bring attention to yourself, but I have a lot of experience with that too, and it's interesting because you, There's these really trivial and stupid fights that happen that like it's supposed to be about the person It's supposed to be about each and every person that wants to come and remember them and have their moment to grieve them and whatever capacity that you know, they can or whatever, you know fill in the blank and when those particular people In the green and I'm not coming from a place of judgment at all, but I've just noticed this pattern because I my mother is definitely the person that did this in my story, my journey when they make it about themselves.

[00:45:44] It's because they're not. They don't want to grieve. They don't want to grieve. They don't. They're not ready. They're not ready to accept it. So controlling all these really trivial things that like become important because they get exasperated. It's just, it's frustrating, and it definitely puts a wedge in the relationship, which is what happened in, in your dynamic, for sure.

[00:46:02] And 

[00:46:03] Samantha: the final thing that made me just totally stop talking to her. We had a GoFundMe for Chris when he first got diagnosed, like for traveling expenses and all these extra medical things, and then when we found out that he was not going to make it, I. Switched it over to funeral expenses.

[00:46:23] I didn't get that much. We knew people, but not people with money, and it didn't go all over the world like some of these GoFundMes. There was only 1, 700 in it. And I bought four urns for my parents and I and me and my younger brother that matched the urn that he was in because we wanted that.

[00:46:45] I bought flowers and they're darn expensive. For a funeral. I bought two things of it. I don't know. There was a lot of expenses and then food for the celebration of life. I went through that plus some of my own.

[00:46:59] In fact, yeah, and my parents and some other people just randomly just gave us money to help us for the celebration of life or they cook something or whatever.

[00:47:09] But in February, later in February, I get an email from GoFundMe, and it says that we have shut down your account. Because there is a report against you that you may have not legally used the money for what it was anticipated for so I had to profile it was oh it was her I mean who else would have done that I had to provide all the receipts and oh and pay for the obituary like I paid for that and that's a hundred dollars or whatever it was and I pretty much used it all I have receipts for everything send it to GoFundMe and that was when like I knew that she was all about money at that point.

[00:47:55] Like I did not agree fully to give you that money towards his funeral. Her father actually ended up paying for the funeral cost. It was cheaper because he was not involved in all the other stuff that happened. But she wanted that 1, 700 that I used. He told me to buy the four urns for ourselves.

[00:48:17] She told me to order the flowers. She told me to order more of the cards, the funeral cards. So we had extra in case there were too many people coming for the package that he chose. There may have not been enough funeral cards, et cetera, et cetera. There were used so much that went into it.

[00:48:36] Maya: and there is, there's a whole lot of planning that goes into funeral, celebration of life, all of that, it's a lot, and until you go through it, you don't know, and God I pray you don't have to, but you will at some point in your life 

[00:48:47] Samantha: right. 

[00:48:47] Maya: to it, yeah. 

[00:48:48] Samantha: Yeah, and it's a lot like I remember I planned his whole celebration of life Which was separate from her because we were not talking anymore

[00:48:57] And she also refused to give up stuff that He left to us in a will it was written will and there's more to that Like I could be on here for hours with you telling you everything that happened, but I know we don't have that time I have not spoken to the woman You my 

[00:49:16] Maya: So February was the last time you had communication with her. That was of 2022. Yeah. Wow. And this is the stuff that we talk about too, right? Is that's another part of your story is like you, this is, there's two different types of secondary losses, right? Secondary losses can be all the things that you are not going to experience with the loved one that, that you lost, right?

[00:49:36] Like all these milestones that he won't get to see with your kiddos and just things like that, that you go through. But, yeah. I feel like that's where our spirituality comes in and we have to find out what works for us, right? So that we can move with that. But the other type of secondary losses, because it can mean two different things, are the people that we lose through this process, right?

[00:49:53] And she's a secondary loss for you, because that was just, it was contentious. It was a difficult situation. And then Now it's another loss because at the end of the day, she was Chris's wife and widow, right? And so that's tough to deal with too. On top of dealing with such a difficult loss, you're dealing with other complicated losses too.

[00:50:14] And

[00:50:14] that's 

[00:50:15] Samantha: talking about secondary, sorry, talking about more secondary loss, I found out that my dad's family did not accept my brother. And I always wondered why my mom was always like at odds with my aunt. And the truth came out.

[00:50:33] Maya: When did you find this out in the, in your journey?

[00:50:36] Samantha: Not too long after he passed, April, May ish, because I think that's when I cut off that part of the family, and I decided for my dad's sake, because he was hurt. They didn't even come to the funeral.

[00:50:52] Maya: Wow, Samantha. 

[00:50:53] Samantha: Yeah, nobody came and that hurt me, it hurt my mom, and that was when I was like, They didn't care even though they were calling they were sending stuff.

[00:51:04] They didn't care. They want my uncle oh, I can't go out because it's cold and blah, blah, blah. And we're like, it's 2022, 

[00:51:13] Maya: Yeah, it's not the same world as 2020 anymore.

[00:51:15] Samantha: right? And we're like, that's the most stupidest thing I've ever heard. I have not talked to that side of the family and it'll be 2 years. My younger brother also cut them off.

[00:51:26] Because they wouldn't accept my brother, and they didn't accept my mother, because of the circumstance she was, had another kid already, and my father decided to marry me and you know what, that stuff doesn't even mean anything to me, and I don't know why it means anything to anybody anymore It's 

[00:51:41] Maya: It's so weird. What is this, 1800? Yeah, it's just, it's very bizarre. Some families to have weird perspectives on things like that. So again, I appreciate you sharing that because I do think that there's a lot of these family dynamics that people think they're alone in. And we all have dynamics.

[00:52:01] And then when you go through a loss, it's just, it gets magnified. So that, yeah, you've definitely been through a lot of secondary losses. between his widow and between, the family, like your extended family, that's a lot. But how do you feel making those choices to put boundaries in place and to say I, I can't have relationships with you, this person, that person, because it's unhealthy.

[00:52:29] I know it's hard. How do you feel putting those boundaries in place? Obviously it was the right thing to do in your eyes, but share with us what that feels 

[00:52:37] Samantha: The only one that I regret cutting off was my aunt, who was not my dad's full sister, which is totally bizarre.

[00:52:47] And, but the family didn't accept her when that was a half, she was a half sister. She, her and I were very close. And she even married my husband and I, because she was a minister.

[00:53:01] That's the only one I think of because she was the only one that was ever really involved in my life. Like my uncle he was, he had money and he would just send these elaborate gifts and stuff. And it was like, Why don't you just come see us like come and see my firstborn like he does not need this elaborate gift Whatever it was.

[00:53:21] I remember like thinking that i'm like, this is how he buys his love for me. It's buying me gifts so I'm, okay, because they never really made an effort anyway 

[00:53:33] Maya: you see a path where you could have a relationship with your aunt again?

[00:53:37] Samantha: I do, but I know my mom will be upset about it, and I don't want to hurt her in her time. This is going to go on for her forever. My aunt is older. She's probably getting close to 80 now anyway. I don't know.

[00:53:53] Maya: And that's okay. That's okay to not know. And that's a part of a lot of our stories is I didn't speak to any of my family for a long time, right? And then I've decided to incorporate who works for me. And not in a oh, are you gonna, Do what I say or what I do. No, can we coexist in a healthy, and can we accept each other's grief journeys?

[00:54:11] That's it. It's a two way street. So no, it's not like a narcissistic thing where it's like you either subscribe to the way I'm grieving or no, so that's why I'm curious when, people say, maybe I'd open that door. So yeah, I think sharing that is, Important.

[00:54:25] So Samantha, the you're just hitting your, the end of your second year, you're going into your third year of grief. So I really want to make sure we touch on this because this is so important in your story. And as you guys know I will not have people on the show that are less than two years into their journey.

[00:54:42] And even then sometimes I'm like, but this is such an important story of anticipatory grief and sharing that this loss is a little. It's elongated, it's a process. And so tell us a little bit, I think, again, this is the biggest question I think I get on to talk is, and most places what's, when do you feel normal again, what's the first year?

[00:55:05] What's the second year? So I'm going to turn it over to you because you just experienced this, like very raw, very fresh. So tell us about that. And I feel like this will be so important in this episode.

[00:55:17] Samantha: The first year I barely remember much of anything happened. And the funny thing is I listened to some other podcast about grief, and I've been listening to Anderson Cooper and one of

[00:55:30] his guests. Yeah. 

[00:55:32] Maya: Yeah. 

[00:55:32] Samantha: And one of his guests recently, like this month came on and she was talking about the first year and she had lost her husband suddenly.

[00:55:43] And she described it more for me than other people. It's you're a zombie. And you're just lurching around trying to find your way and you have no idea what's going on because you're brainless. Like you're just surviving. And that's how I felt the whole first year. And even into past that I don't think I started to come to the realization that I am still living until like last summer.

[00:56:13] And now I more think about a lot of things. Like I put things in perspective. Like I need to spend more time with my family. I need to make it a point to spend time with my mom, a point to spend time with my younger brother, my dad, and make sure I'm here for my kids and my husband. Definitely look at the world a different way.

[00:56:35] Like before this happened, I was always like tunnel vision. Now I actually look at sunrises. And I'm like, Oh, that same sunset happened the day Chris passed away. Just the weird things like that you don't notice on every day and you go through your ups and downs. I remember constantly sobbing a lot during that first year and staying in bed.

[00:57:03] My room was my sanctuary and it was always dark. And now I'm like, I gotta get up. I've got to make it to work. I've got to do this. Even though I still have days where I'm like, I just don't want to do this like today. And I know part of it is my grief that I didn't want to go today. Because I've been battling it and made it through all last week.

[00:57:25] It definitely opens your eyes the second year. You realize what you've lost, what you still have. What's ahead. And you want to keep living. Whereas in that first year, you don't know if you really want to. And I hate to say that, but I've heard that from a lot of people. They weren't sure if they wanted to stay alive and don't because they had lost their sibling and it's a hard thing to get through.

[00:57:54] Maya: One of the, I've done quite a few episodes on the other side now of this journey of grief, and I've had a few people ask me, but there was one particular inter there was two or three, where they asked me, they said, Hey, this is a common thing, but after you lose someone this is a hard question.

[00:58:12] I'm like, just spit it out. I'm an open book. What's the question? They're like, were you ever suicidal or did you ever not want to live? And I'm like yeah. Yeah, just to embody year one. That was totally true. And then one particular, I think it was on Susan Casey's. Episode and maybe one other episode, but they asked me did you attempt and it was the first time I really talked about it.

[00:58:34] Now I talk about it openly. But yeah, I did. And it was about two months after, not even after my brother, it was probably two months, January after. And I just didn't want to. And there were so many reasons why. But, that's something that I really appreciate you being open about because, people are little, You know there's a stigma around and I don't think there should be like you just lost someone that you really love and they're not here why the heck do you want to be here that's how I felt you know I didn't want to feel like it's interesting because in the first year you do feel like a zombie I think that's a great description to you and it's but you're also in a lot of pain and you're just like you almost want to feel something so it's it's very weird it's a very weird time and I just think.

[00:59:22] If, you guys can take something away from this episode, which I think you'll take a lot away from this episode, but that's one thing. Just give yourself permission, especially in the first year, to just feel lost because it's normal.

[00:59:33] Samantha: Yeah, it's totally normal. I mean you're still lost in the second year But not as bad as that first year and I just remember like thinking I could just drive my car down into that ditch right there You know hit the trees and whatever. I'm done. I got through that somehow like you did It

[00:59:54] Maya: I think it's interesting that you have a Pivotal moment or pivotal time where you're like it was last summer share a little over a year right into it and you're into your second year and you're like i'm looking at sunsets and i'm looking at sunrises and i'm looking around myself and that was your timeline and everybody has their own timeline but i do find that in year two you start to feel again like it's like almost a melting of the iceberg right around and 

[01:00:19] Samantha: is because you do feel it and you're like, what is wrong with me? Like, why do I feel like this all of a sudden? Yesterday, I was fine. Two hours ago, I was fine. But I'm like, why do I just feel depressed and down in the dumps? And it's like, how do I dig myself out? But somehow a few days later, you're fine again.

[01:00:38] And you could be fine for a while. And then all of a sudden it hits you again. Something triggers it. Like last week, I did get triggered by a toy. That my brother had gotten my younger son and I looked at it and I'm like, oh my god I'm gonna cry about this. So I went my bedroom and sat and cried about it, and I knew it was coming so It just happens you're not gonna be able to control any of it

[01:01:06] Maya: But it's interesting that you just share that because you're past the two year mark now and you have the tools now. You're like, I feel this. This is something, this is a moment for me. I'm going to go to my safe place, which I think that's a really good piece of advice too. Samantha, I don't know if I've ever really talked about that.

[01:01:25] I've talked about having a special place in your house, like to remember them and stuff. But I think it's important to have your safe space, like you're like me, my bed is my safe space. I'm like, let me get in my bed with my dogs.

[01:01:35] That's like my thing. Yes. Give me like, yeah, but like you, I'm really proud of you and I'm proud of you for sharing that too, because like you knew, you were like this I'm gonna go feel this.

[01:01:45] I'm, and I think that's what's interesting too, is like when you start to come out of this, like zombie-like fog, like state. You feel so much and then you start to get the tools like you have so again I'm so glad we're talking about this But you were like I'm gonna feel this and I'm gonna allow myself to feel it That's like when you get to the next I feel like that's a part of the healing journey is Allowing yourself to feel it because then when you started to feel at least for me It's so overwhelming.

[01:02:16] I go, God, do I really want to allow myself to do all

[01:02:18] Samantha: I do remember being in that spot too. Yeah, but now I'm like, I'm just going to let it go. If it's in the middle of work, I'm going to just look, it doesn't happen at work. But, Whenever it happens and I just go with it. And sometimes I actually, I've been using my journal on my phone more than writing because everybody said, Oh, journal it.

[01:02:37] And I'm like, I hate writing everything out with a pen and paper. And finally I was just like, let me just start recording stuff in my phone. Like I went from note and then Apple came out with the journal recently. So now I've just been journaling it every day that I feel like I need to. And that helped a lot.

[01:02:57] Maya: Yeah, I love it. Yes, I know. I'm like, yeah, I love it. I think that's so good. And I think it's great because not everybody likes to take pen to paper. I do just because I was an English major and that was what I did for so long. But I'm also a talker. So sometimes I want to do like a talk to text type situation, things like that.

[01:03:14] And thank God for technology. We can do what works for us now. And I think that's great. Advice. What advice would you give? So a couple questions for you before we close out, Samantha. But what advice would you give to somebody going through? You've given so much knowledge and insight, but what advice would you give to someone who are Is losing a sibling like is actively going through a loss right now, whether it is to cancer or some other form of anticipatory grief, right?

[01:03:41] There's so many illnesses out there, unfortunately. So what's an advice that you could give them something you wish you would have maybe told yourself could go back in time, right?

[01:03:49] Samantha: I know, something I would've told myself was that he really was gonna pass away and I probably could have prepared myself a little more, but I don't know if any preparation is really gonna help. Definitely write things down. If you feel like you think you wanna remember it, but even if you wrote it down, you don't have to refer back to it.

[01:04:11] You wrote it down. It's there. At least you were able to feel what you're feeling in anticipatory grief and put it down in pen and paper, however you want to do it. Like I wish I had, because right now I wish I could go back and look at The events and look at how I dealt with certain things because I can't remember like there's two parts of my life the Before chris passed and the after chris passed and if you ask me about any events that happened before chris passed away No idea.

[01:04:44] I can't remember any of it and i've asked I've had to ask like my in laws like what did we do that christmas? Like, where were we? The good thing is, my mother in law writes things down. She did write it down. And I'm like, I don't remember any of it. But if you feel you need to remember it, write it all down.

[01:05:04] Also take your emotions as they come. Try not to hold back, because I think it makes it worse. Because I found myself really out of it for days if I held it back and then suddenly just let it go. Find your place. Find your place that you feel comfortable just letting it go because it definitely will help.

[01:05:27] Maya: Yeah, I think it's not how I like to meet people, but it's how I meet people is through loss. And I remember meeting you very early in your grief journey. And I remember you doing that a lot. I remember you holding it in and,

[01:05:41] It's really beautiful to see where you are now, Samantha, because it's and I know this is a life journey we're all on together, but it's so interesting, to see where you are now and the fact that, you're like, I, that, that's not serving me.

[01:05:56] That's not gonna work for me. It's holding it, hold, trying to hold it all together. It that's a thing. Theme here in this episode two is control. Cause I think that's what we try to do. And I think we're all guilty of that in grief, but I can see that specifically just in your story and also being a mom, being a wife and working and and you were caretaker for Chris, like that's a lot.

[01:06:18] And it's quite overwhelming to feel like, Oh God, now I've got to go process all of these emotions. No, I got to hold it together. And but it's counterintuitive to your point. If the more you hold it in, it's not gonna serve you and it's not gonna work for you. So I think that's a really great piece of advice as well.

[01:06:35] What, so again, anticipatory grief is just it's different. And I think, having documentation, I think that's important too. For me, if I didn't write the stuff down in my own journey, I wouldn't have been able to tell the story. I wouldn't have because there would have been so many holes and there still is.

[01:06:50] My memory, it's normal. And let's normalize that, right? Let's normalize the fact that is a thing. So the other question I wanted to ask you too is, now coming through, we talked about year one, coming through year two, what are some things that you've, you have your place that you go to, but what are some specific things, coping things you touched on a little bit, but want to make sure we cover it.

[01:07:11] What are some specific things that you would. Give as a gift to people listening to this that are going through anticipatory grief what are some things that you maybe wish would have done in your coping? Writing down is one thing, having your safe place, but and what are some things that you are doing that you have found that are helpful specifically to your type of loss?

[01:07:30] Samantha: Definitely, I felt like reading the book helps me in the beginning and listening to your podcast because it helped me through everything and I couldn't wait to get in the car, listen to your podcast every week during those seasons. And I could be down in the dumps and listening to other people go through the same thing like find someone or something that you could listen to or a book you can read.

[01:07:56] I was not about group and I know you talk to me about that often. I remember you not wanting to go to group. I went to group once in the September after he passed and I sat there and cried the whole time and I'm like, I don't want to sit here and cry this out. These people that I don't even know, which is fine, but now I do groups.

[01:08:21] Mine haven't started back up yet, but grief share is where I found mine. And it doesn't have to be a sibling group. The group that I go to is like everybody, there's people that lost siblings, husband, wives, mothers, fathers, everything, and it gives you a different perspective on grief, and it's a major learning journey and you're going to keep learning through it on how to deal with what you're going through the whole time until you die.

[01:08:49] That's what I've learned a lot through the

[01:08:53] Maya: And I think that can sound like Mount Everest to people when they're going through it. It's what? I'm going to be doing this? Yeah, at the beginning. But then I think it's actually. It turns into a nice thing because it turns into okay it's not so scary anymore. It's already happened. I can, I'm not going to feel like this every day,

[01:09:17] every minute, right? And I remember meeting you and you were like, I'm going to feel like this forever. You're like, I'm like, yes, girl, that is how it feels like you are in this horrible club with us, but you're not. And so it's just really awesome.

[01:09:31] To, be here two years later with you and hear all these tools and I love it because you know that you're going to grief share group. You go to our group like this. You were the girl that did not want to do group

[01:09:43] Samantha: right, 

[01:09:44] Maya: you're so open in our group and other groups like you're amazing. And that's what I think it's all, cool.

[01:09:51] This whole phrase of time heals all wounds, that's so false, and a lot of people rephrase it, but time allows you to grow with your grief, and that's really what I think has happened with you,

[01:10:04] Samantha: Yeah. It's never healed. There's always gonna be that scab there, basically. So that's what I relate it to. It does get better. And I know people, because I hate it, people saying that to me in the beginning too, I'm like, no, it's not going to get better, there's no way this is going to get better my whole heart was ripped out of my chest when my brother passed away, but you learn to get through it, you learn what works for you, you learn to smell the flowers again, you really do, and you have those happy days, And then those happy days, you get more of those happy days, and then you'll slip into that grief again for a little bit.

[01:10:43] Maya: I totally agree. I totally agree. Samantha, is there anything else that you want to share with us, or anything that I missed in your story that you want to touch on today?

[01:10:53] Samantha: There probably is more, but we'll do it another time. 

[01:10:56] Maya: Part two. 

[01:10:57] Samantha: yeah, I can't

[01:10:58] Maya: Two more year check in. 

[01:10:59] Samantha: Yeah.

[01:11:02] Maya: Tell us, It is a lot. It is a lot. But I think this is really great and helpful for anybody who's wanting to understand what the first year is what the second year is like and what that changes. And of course, if you're going through an anticipatory grief situation. And so thanks for sharing all of that with us.

[01:11:18] Where are you comfortable? I know you're very active in our group, but where can people reach out to you if they're dealing with anticipatory grief or connect with your story?

[01:11:27] Samantha: I am mostly on facebook, but i'm hidden because i'm a teacher I do have instagram and I do have tiktok people could find me my whole name's on instagram and tiktok, but not on face It's easier to find me through insta and tiktok, 

[01:11:42] Maya: Perfect. So we'll put the links in the show notes if you guys want to connect with Samantha. And then, of course, you're actively very active in our Facebook group. So that's always in the show notes, too. So you could always find her there and supporting our group. And again, I'm just so grateful that you wanted to come and share your story.

[01:11:58] And this is you're an early loss story, in the spectrum of what we talk about on this show. But I think it was really needed. So thanks for sharing. You and thanks for sharing, Chris. And thank you for Chris for serving as well and for serving the country. That's huge.

[01:12:14] Samantha: Yes, definitely

[01:12:16] Maya: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Samantha.

[01:12:18]