Kayla Loses Ashley To Choking

Kayla Loses Ashley To Choking- Podcast
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[00:00:00] Kaya- Maya view: Today I have another amazing bereaved sibling. With me I have Kayla. Kayla, welcome to the show.

[00:00:43] Kaya- Kayla view: Hi everyone. Hi Maya. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:46] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah, thanks for being here. So Kayla is going to share her story today. She lost her sibling at a young age, which this is something we have talked about on the show before, but [00:01:00] Kayla's experience is extremely unique. So, Kayla, take us back to 2006 and tell us a little bit about what your life was like.

[00:01:09] Kaya- Maya view: Tell us about your sister, Ashley, and share those family dynamics and where you were at that time.

[00:01:16] Kaya- Kayla view: All right. Yeah, so back in 2006, there was three of us. I'm the oldest, I'm Kayla. And then I have a middle sister Mia, and then we had a baby sister Ashley. So it was my dad and my stepmom. My sister was always like a full sibling to me. It was never, she's my stepsister, so I've never referred to her like that.

[00:01:35] Kaya- Kayla view: But it was my dad and my stepmom's first child together. And it was, one of those things when, since I've been a little girl, I loved being a sister. Like when my sister Mia was born, I just loved her to pieces, like every day of my life was dedicated to her. So when my sister Ashley was born, I was a little older and I was able to take on that like.

[00:01:56] Kaya- Kayla view: Secondary parent, like mode. 'cause I was almost 11 at, [00:02:00] in 2006. So I took on that like, second mother kind of figure. Like I was always there for her. If she needed something, I was there to get it. I spent lots of time with her. So in 2006 she just suddenly got sick and, we thought maybe, she was just having like asthma related symptoms, like the hospital was treating her for that. So she would like, experience, like struggle, struggles with breathing. She was turning blue, like she just was having a really hard time breathing and my parents just could not figure out why. So they had finally taken her to the hospital and they were, giving her asthma treatments inhalers, like they had did a chest x-ray.

[00:02:41] Kaya- Kayla view: They didn't see anything wrong, so they were just like, Hey, maybe she's just having an asthma attack. So they sent our parents home with inhalers a nebulizer, which they, continued to treat with for months. It seemed to help a little, but she would just keep having these instances where she just couldn't breathe and she was turning blue in the [00:03:00] lips and everything like that.

[00:03:01] Kaya- Kayla view: So finally they had taken her to the hospital and, , they said the same thing, like it's just an asthma attack. So they released my sister on March 5th, which was also the day she passed away. They sent her home with our parents and our family got home. And this is just from what my parents have told me, I don't really, I wasn't there which.

[00:03:22] Kaya- Kayla view: Now as an adult, I think, like, thank goodness I wasn't, because that would probably have been very traumatizing as a young child. But, my family came home, they all were sitting on our family couch, and my dad was holding my sister, and all of a sudden she stopped breathing. So again, they called, they called Amed, they took her to the hospital.

[00:03:44] Kaya- Kayla view: I'm not really sure what happened from there. My, I, my parents didn't really give me the full details. So, all I know is the next day, March 6th I was getting ready to go to school. It was a Monday morning, and my mom's like, Hey, your dad and Jolene are here to talk to you. Jolene's, my [00:04:00] stepmom.

[00:04:00] Kaya- Kayla view: I'm like, okay, why? I was just getting ready for school and I was one of those typical kids who love school. I loved getting up, getting ready to go to school. We lived right across the street. So I would get ready and I would get all my book bag on my coat, get ready to go, and I come outside and my dad and my stepmom are standing there and they looked terrible.

[00:04:22] Kaya- Kayla view: I've never seen them look so bad. Like I, and I can see their faces even as an adult right now, like what they looked like. And they were standing at the bottom of our stairs. My dad was crying, which I've never seen him cry before. Even as like an adult, I still never see him cry. My stepmom. She had a roll of toilet paper in her hands and she just looked like hell, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on here, but she looked very bad.

[00:04:48] Kaya- Kayla view: And they both told me that my sister had passed away. And I'm looking at them like, what? This is a sick joke. So I literally told them, stop joking with me. I was in complete denial. I [00:05:00] didn't wanna believe it. So finally I, clicked to me like, oh, maybe they're not joking. So I started crying too.

[00:05:06] Kaya- Kayla view: And after everything was settled, I was feeling okay. They left, they went about their business. I went to school. I had perfect attendance, so I refused to miss school. I was like, mom,

[00:05:19] Kaya- Maya view: ask you that. I'm like, did you still go to school? So, Kayla I wanna interject here for just a second. I want to remind everybody how old your sister was. She was really young. She was one and a half right when this was happening. And just for a second too, I wanna go back.

[00:05:37] Kaya- Maya view: How old was she when, so she was one and a half

[00:05:42] Kaya- Maya view: When this happened on March 5th, which is really wild because we're just a few days away from her death anniversary as we're recording this. Which is interesting, but. When she initially went in to the hospital with these issues, how old was she then?

[00:05:59] Kaya- Maya view: How [00:06:00] many months old or was she further along? Like how, when did that happen?

[00:06:04] Kaya- Kayla view: so it was within months. I always, for some reason the number three has always stuck. So it's been, it was like three months that she was in the hospital and, or this was going on three months. And then finally that's when it, came to a screeching halt. And we were like, wait, what?

[00:06:20] Kaya- Kayla view: Like when they finally told us what the, like, cause of death was, we were like, wait. What, like how can someone be choking for that long and no one know it? So that was crazy.

[00:06:31] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. Okay. And we're gonna get, we're gonna get to that obviously too. So then you went to school that day. Like how are you feeling throughout the day where you just as an 11-year-old, it's like. Where were you with that? Like were you really processing it yet or was it just okay, just keep doing the day to day?

[00:06:51] Kaya- Maya view: Like I think it's interesting when we hear stories about us losing someone at a young age, because in some ways a lot of people, [00:07:00] I don't really love this terminology, but a lot of people will say like, children are so resilient. But I, and like in some ways they are. But I think what's so interesting, and we'll talk about this a little bit later, I think what's so interesting is that we say that, but the impact that it has on a child will like carry through life and come out and manifest in different ways, which we'll talk about later in the episode.

[00:07:24] Kaya- Maya view: But I just think that's interesting because you are showing resiliency by going to school that day. So what was that like for you going to school that day? Like, did you com compartmentalize it? Like what was that like for you?

[00:07:38] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah, so I went to school. I didn't cry, I didn't think about it. I just was like, Hey, I have perfect attendance. I wanna keep perfect attendance. And, it's funny to think about now as an adult, like, I was so worried about having perfect attendance, that I was like, I can't leave.

[00:07:55] Kaya- Kayla view: I have to go to school. So I went to school, everything was fine. [00:08:00] And I, asked my mom, please do not let the school know, like, I just wanna go about my day and not have to, think of this or worry about this, or cry at school. So my mom being the mom, she is, she calls the school. Talks to my teacher, which again, because I was so young and there, it was so much going on.

[00:08:18] Kaya- Kayla view: I remember like details, like my teacher's name was Mrs. Summers and she pull, we were in the computer lab and she pulls me out to the hallway and she's like, Kayla. And I'm like, yeah, what's, yeah, what's going on? I didn't think she knew anything. She's like, your mom just call me, told me what happened.

[00:08:35] Kaya- Kayla view: How are you doing? And I just lost it. I started crying and I was like, I didn't want my mom to call. I just wanted to make it through the day. So she hugged me, told me she was so sorry. They asked me if I wanted to go home. I declined. I wanted to stay at school, and I finished my school day off. I cried that moment with my teacher and then I didn't again for the rest of the day.[00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah, it's, and I think this is why people say like, kids are so resilient, but I think it can also be like a brushing off of that in the moment too. But I do think, I think there's some truth to it. I do think kids are resilient, but I think it's because we want. We wanna do exactly what you said, we wanna stay in our norm.

[00:09:22] Kaya- Maya view: And that's actually how we're coping with it. So tell us a little bit about what happened next, and I know this can be a blur for most of us, and I can only imagine at 11, it was for you too, but did you guys have a funeral for Ashley? Like, what happened next?

[00:09:38] Kaya- Maya view: What were the next days like, weeks like for you guys? 

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[00:11:23] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah.

[00:11:24] Kaya- Kayla view: So, the next two days, like you said, a blur. I couldn't tell you what I did the next day. Couldn't tell you how I was feeling. I even asked my mom, I'm like, mom, what was I like, like, 'cause I was preparing for this, interview and I'm like, mom, like I'm struggling. What happened? The sixth and the seventh?

[00:11:40] Kaya- Kayla view: And my mom couldn't even tell me. She's like, Kayla, we went through a lot of crying, a lot of sadness those days. Like, she's like, I blocked it all out. I'm sure you did the same. So I don't re recall what happened the day or two after, but we did have a funeral. It was on that Wednesday, so two days later we attended my [00:12:00] sister's funeral.

[00:12:01] Kaya- Kayla view: iT was, I can, the only way I can describe it is surreal. Like I just can't even. Believe I even had to do something like that, especially at 11 years old. So I walked into the funeral home and my sister was literally like a doll baby. Like, she literally just was so cute. And we walk in the funeral home and we used to like play princesses together.

[00:12:23] Kaya- Kayla view: So my sister loves Cinderella. I loved Belle, so she was always a princess to all of us. And when you walk in the funeral home and they were playing a princess song, like, it was like a song you would hear at like, a princess ball. So you walk in, that's what you hear, and I'm just like, oh my gosh.

[00:12:41] Kaya- Kayla view: Like, I can't believe we're here right now. And then there's just a room full of people crying, like people I've never seen, people that I, I've met a couple times but don't really know them. And I'm focused on just the casket. Like I'm just like. Wow. Like, that's like the end game.

[00:12:58] Kaya- Kayla view: That's the whole reason why we're [00:13:00] here is right there, that casket. And I was insistent on going up there. I'm like, I need to go up there. So I go up there, my sister's laying in there look like, honestly like a porcelain doll. Like she just looked so perfect. And she had what I believe was a pink dress on like a ball gown.

[00:13:18] Kaya- Kayla view: And I remember just looking at her like, this can't be real because I, like, before she passed away, I saw her like the weekend before. So like, it had just been days since I saw her last. So like, I think that's another reason why I was in denial of like, my parents like just telling me a joke because I was like, I just saw her.

[00:13:38] Kaya- Kayla view: What are you talking about? But I had went up to the casket. I remember touching her, and then I had gotten freaked out because I don't know who it was, but someone said, yeah, her organs are at the bottom. And I'm like, what the heck? Like, why would you tell me that? So like, I remember thinking really like, oh, I don't wanna go near the end of her casket, because they kept saying that's where they were.

[00:13:59] Kaya- Kayla view: [00:14:00] And I'm like, that's so weird. But I just remember like after the funeral, I was like, dad, can I please come with you? And I wasn't allowed because my sister's death was very sudden and it was almost like they were like, the police were in denial that this could be the hospital's fault. Not, this is not something that someone did or, she wasn't murdered or anything, but they were investigating every inch of it.

[00:14:26] Kaya- Kayla view: So like my, for whatever reason, my dad and my grandfather were being investigated they were investigating them as if like. They had abused her. So we were not, US children were not allowed to go over there. Because I guess whenever a young child dies, they have to go through every motion of it, which obviously we knew nothing like that had happened.

[00:14:49] Kaya- Kayla view: But, it was the police's protocol. So

[00:14:52] Kaya- Maya view: why you couldn't go with your dad because of that. But you didn't really understand that at the time. I would, yeah. You're just like, dad, [00:15:00] like, why can't I be with you? Like, we lost our like, family member here. Wow. Yeah.

[00:15:06] Kaya- Kayla view: And I remember my mom, like, I wasn't allowed to go to the burial. My mom said that I would have nightmares and she just did not want me to have to deal with that. And I remember begging and begging like, please just let me go. And my mom's like, no, you're not going. So.

[00:15:22] Kaya- Maya view: you this though, about that, because do, this is interesting 'cause I've heard stories like this from other people too, where like their parents would like, want them to be a part of certain parts when they were a child, but maybe not some other things. For me, this is not the same thing as you, but I wanna get your perspective on this.

[00:15:43] Kaya- Maya view: I was around the same age when I saw an open casket for the first time, and it was a child

[00:15:48] Kaya- Maya view: Less than a year old. So I relate to you. This was somebody that I babysat like in the neighborhood and died from, like, what is this syndrome called? I've talked [00:16:00] about it on the show before actually with child loss before.

[00:16:03] Kaya- Maya view: It's like shaken baby syndrome 

[00:16:04] Kaya- Maya view: This was the second child for this family. I had babysat the older child for a long time and then this baby came along and this happened.

[00:16:12] Kaya- Maya view: And so there was an open casket as well. And I remember feeling exactly what you were saying. Obviously not as much of a, an emotional connection. It's not my sibling, but I remember her being like, this looks like a porcelain doll. Like it was very intense to me that was way more intense than going to a burial site.

[00:16:34] Kaya- Maya view: So it's okay. So you feel that way too. That's why I wanted to ask that. And it's nothing against your mom, but I'm curious, why do you think your mom felt that way? I'm curious about

[00:16:44] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. Yeah. So my mom I've asked her before why she thought that wasn't a good idea, and she said that she could just imagine that I would have bad nightmares of my sister going down in the ground and not being able to come back up and she just did [00:17:00] not want me to have that reoccurring nightmare.

[00:17:02] Kaya- Kayla view: So,

[00:17:03] Kaya- Maya view: And I think that's, yeah. For me, that's never been, that's never, that's a hard moment, but for me it was seeing them that was really hard. So, but I think what your mom was conveying is like, this is what I could see for you. And I think that's, where a mother's love is so important.

[00:17:20] Kaya- Maya view: But at the same point, I was curious about your perspective on that, but interesting that she felt that way. So you didn't go to that part of, yeah. So what so you guys have the funeral, you can see your dad. What happens? What happens next? Because there's this investigation going on and does that kind of lead to what you later found out?

[00:17:46] Kaya- Maya view: Or how does that go? What does that look like next?

[00:17:49] Kaya- Kayla view: yeah. So, I go back home with my mom, I wasn't allowed to go with my dad, so I was like, fine, whatever. And then, shortly after, I don't recall how much after, [00:18:00] but the autopsy came back, revealed she was choking on a peanut and, was not asthma. They had apologized to my.

[00:18:08] Kaya- Maya view: how long did that take to come through? From the death to the funeral. How long did that take for you guys to find out that she was choking on a peanut?

[00:18:20] Kaya- Kayla view: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't call the timeframe. I would say, if I had to think about it and put an estimate to it, I would say it was just a couple weeks. I don't really know. But I do know, like, my parents just being like, I. Wait, what? Like, because they were told it was asthma, like she was having a severe asthma attack, so they were like a peanut, like, we don't even really eat peanuts like that.

[00:18:43] Kaya- Kayla view: Like where would she have even got a peanut? And then that's where it started getting sticky because everybody's like, who gave her the peanut and where did she get the peanut for him? That kind of thing. So I feel as if everybody was pointing fingers at each other. And it made everything [00:19:00] go crazy.

[00:19:01] Kaya- Kayla view: So, yeah. And and that's, like I said, the radiology the radiologist missed the peanut and they reviewed the pin, reviewed the chest x-ray again. They saw it immediately and there we go. It was like they missed it. That, that's what the problem was.

[00:19:18] Kaya- Maya view: No, that's really huge. 'cause that was a question I was gonna ask you like was if they looked back, was like, were there stuff that they missed and there was, so what unraveled from that? Because like that's a big medical miss.

[00:19:37] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. Oh yeah. So after that my parents did end up suing them. And they won. They won. My understanding the radiologist was fired, but again, I was little, so I'm not a hundred percent sure. I just remember when the court case was going on. Like, I just remember people at school specifically like teachers or other children's parents saying they were so sorry [00:20:00] for my lost.

[00:20:01] Kaya- Kayla view: And, I was like, okay. I have never thought of like, what is the right thing to say back to that? Thank you. Like, okay, like I, I still dunno, like, what am I supposed to say back to, sorry for your loss. And I just remember being like, okay. Thank you. And I didn't really know much about the court case.

[00:20:19] Kaya- Kayla view: They kept it between them, like I said, they won. And a little backstory, my stepmother she only wanted one child. So, she had got her tubes tied after she had my sister.

[00:20:30] Kaya- Maya view: Wow.

[00:20:31] Kaya- Kayla view: And my dad was okay with that as well. Because, he already had, well technically four kids.

[00:20:37] Kaya- Kayla view: So he was like, I'm good. We don't need any more children. She got her tubes tied. And obviously losing my sister then brought regret because there was no way to. Have another child. And I know when they won the court case, she took the money and got her tubes untied and she was able to have two little boys.

[00:20:58] Kaya- Kayla view: Yes. Who [00:21:00] I'm still very close with. They consider me their sister. I consider them my brothers, and yeah, I still have a good relationship with her. And you know what I call my stepbrothers. Yeah. So there was a happy ending to it.

[00:21:13] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. That's, so did she, are they twins or did she have two more children?

[00:21:19] Kaya- Kayla view: ones. Yeah. Two separate ones. I believe they're a year apart. But yeah.

[00:21:24] Kaya- Maya view: That kind of makes me a little emotional because it's like, but Ashley's always gonna be like her daughter, right? But she got her boys to look after her, like, I don't know why that kind of hit me like that, but I was like, oh, that makes me so emotional for her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's like, oh my God, I'm so happy for her.

[00:21:41] Kaya- Maya view: That's awesome. And that's awesome that you have a good relationship with all of them, but I'm sure that was super healing for you on this journey as well, right? Yeah, so I think, it's just such a wild story,

[00:21:56] Kaya- Kayla view: yeah. It really is.

[00:21:57] Kaya- Maya view: wild.

[00:21:59] Kaya- Kayla view: When I [00:22:00] tell it, people are like, no. I'm like, yeah I swear to you. And it's one of those things that, because it happened in 2006, everything is archived. I tried to bring up like, 'cause I was a kid, so I didn't know all the details, but now as an adult, like, I'm into like, documentaries and I'm into like people's, like autobi biographies and, all that kind of stuff.

[00:22:21] Kaya- Kayla view: So I'm like, I wanna know more. Like, I wanna know how the court case went. I wanna know, who was the radiologist? Like, what did they have to say for themselves? But everything is archived, so like, there's no way to unlock it, or at least I haven't figured out how to unlock it. But I just, I can't find anything.

[00:22:40] Kaya- Kayla view: It's like very vague.

[00:22:42] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah, it's, and it's interesting that you're saying that couple things that are interesting to me with this, because one, you know your, your stepmom and your dad could definitely get all of that information, but I think there's probably an apprehension on your side where it's like, you are ready to dive in and go through all [00:23:00] this, hence why you're on this show.

[00:23:02] Kaya- Maya view: Right? But like, they went through all of that kind of in real time, which I think is something to highlight as as a sibling, we talk about sibling loss here, of course. So as a sibling who's lost a sibling at a young age, we process at different speeds and we get interested in what happened at different speeds.

[00:23:21] Kaya- Maya view: And that happens with all sibling loss in general. Like we all grieve on different timelines. But what I see very consistently Kayla, with those of you who have lost as a child, whether you're a very young child, whether you're like pre-teen like you, or even teen years. Teenagers tend to operate a little bit more like young adults, but still from what I found, but still it's a process for you guys.

[00:23:48] Kaya- Maya view: 'cause you have to grieve at different paces because you've gotta do school, you've gotta be there for your parents and like, there's a lot of pressure to be like the good kid and like, listen to your story, you wanted to keep your [00:24:00] perfect attendance. Like it probably became more important than ever then because it's a controllable.

[00:24:05] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. So I think that's interesting in your story, but I think what's interesting too is that you're like, you're now like interested and like you have been over the past few years it sounds like, in finding out what happened and like what this was all like, so. I guess I would just ask you like, why do you think you are now interested in that?

[00:24:27] Kaya- Maya view: And like also a follow-up question to that would be like, can you also take us back through like the years and when you started to have interest in like different areas? Like, 'cause I think there are milestones because there's some years for me, even eight, nine years into this where it's, it was a lull year.

[00:24:44] Kaya- Maya view: Like it wasn't, like, it was always important to me with my brother and like helping him and like help finding, justice, whatever that means. And like working really hard. But I remember there being more times of intensity when I felt like I needed this right now or I needed that. [00:25:00] So I'm just curious about those kind of two aspects and like what your perspective is on that with your journey.

[00:25:06] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like I started getting real really interested in it when I started getting about 16, like, I was finally old enough that I could be like, Hey, I can figure this out on my own. Because I didn't feel comfortable asking my stepmom because she was still very much grieving.

[00:25:27] Kaya- Kayla view: Like she took her a long time. And still to this day, obviously she's grieving. But she was very still very much emotional. So I did not feel comfortable asking her. And because my mom was just my mom, she wasn't Ashley's mom, I couldn't ask her 'cause she didn't know. And my dad everybody grieves different, but my dad has shut that part of his life.

[00:25:49] Kaya- Kayla view: Out. So, my dad, I would never wanna open that door for him because again he's already closed that door. He's not willing to open it back up. So [00:26:00] about 16, I was like, why wonder if that happens? Like, why, like why did this happen? And, I grew up where everybody blamed each other so.

[00:26:09] Kaya- Kayla view: It was like, oh, so and so had the penis and she got it, or so and so wasn't watching her or whatever. So, you didn't want to ask anyone anything. Like even my grandparents, I never felt comfortable to say like, Hey, can you tell me a little more? Just because again, like everybody blamed each other.

[00:26:27] Kaya- Kayla view: And my sister passing, like everybody split up like my stepdad or my stepmom and my dad split up. My dad didn't want me around them. And my mom like low key, let me still go around without my dad knowing. So it was like a lot. So I was like, you know what, I'll do this on my own. I'll try to figure it out.

[00:26:45] Kaya- Kayla view: And. As a kid at 16, I didn't know where to look. Like, I feel like, now you're I'll Google it. But at 16 I don't remember thinking like, oh, I could just Google it. I didn't think I had that kind of resources. So, I don't even know what I even tried, like tried to do, but [00:27:00] I remember being like, I need to find this out.

[00:27:03] Kaya- Kayla view: And then as I got into like my, like early twenties, I was just like, it just isn't still not making sense. But again, I felt like I didn't have anywhere to look for the information and it wasn't until like the last few years that I was like, you know what? Let me try to look it up on Google. I know I have Google. I know Google. You can usually find lots of information. I Googled it and then you find it like I live in a small town, so our paper, our, where our paper comes from, we have like a website for it and I look it up and the article comes up. But you can't open it.

[00:27:37] Kaya- Kayla view: It says it's archived. And I'm like, what the heck? Why is this archived? Why can't I open it? And some of the articles you can open, but like, they're none of the articles that like I want or that I feel I need. So to open them, you have to pay. And I was like, I don't feel that I am gonna get anything from this one, so I've not paid for it.

[00:27:59] Kaya- Kayla view: I [00:28:00] also, her obituary is locked as well. It's archived, so I just recently paid for a new obituary. And it just doesn't feel like the real thing. Like I remember it being so much more than what it is. And yeah, I.

[00:28:16] Kaya- Maya view: that interesting how we remember things so differently, and then when we go back to it, I think that's an interesting perspective of your story too. Yeah.

[00:28:24] Kaya- Kayla view: I remember that obituary being what I felt was a mile long. Like my sister is amazing, is what I feel like that thing said. And then I look at it, I'm like, what? Like this has like the bare bones to it. Like what happened to the obituary that I remember?

[00:28:40] Kaya- Maya view: It was more like factual and informational than it was like this loving piece of here, here was Ashley, we loved her and Yeah. Yeah,

[00:28:51] Kaya- Kayla view: It was really obituary. I remember. This is not it.

[00:28:55] Kaya- Maya view: yeah. That's interesting. I think it's interesting too, I wanted to [00:29:00] call this out too, Kayla, that you wanted to reengage with this and reexamine it. About five years into your grief journey. And it's another theme that I think keeps coming up this season because that was me. Like I launched this show five years Into My Grief Journey for multiple reasons.

[00:29:21] Kaya- Maya view: There are legal reasons why there were, that was a big driver, but legally I could have talked about a little bit earlier. So it was more emotional and mental. I just felt like ready to reengage in a more public way. And I didn't really think anything of it. I, that was just my timeline.

[00:29:42] Kaya- Maya view: But since then I've had guests, I've had therapists, I've had, just people call me out on it and be like, look, it's not surprising to me that you did five years. And I'm like. Tell me more, like what are you talking about? Like what is that about? But apparently, and I felt it [00:30:00] and it's so interesting to me when I hear this from other siblings or those in grief in general, but other siblings specifically is fascinating to me.

[00:30:08] Kaya- Maya view: 'cause I've been through this five years is a big milestone and I just thought it was because of the traditional like 5, 10, 15, 20, how we do, in our culture. But it's actually not so much that it's because you've had like three to five years and I've, again, a lot of my therapist friends shout out to you guys, you're amazing have told me this is very significant.

[00:30:30] Kaya- Maya view: I remember three to five years being very significant and then approaching that timeline, we all have our own timeline but when we like, there are going to be commonalities in the grief experience. So it doesn't surprise me that at 16 you were like, hang on, let me like think about some of this again, because it is a big.

[00:30:49] Kaya- Maya view: Milestone in the grief journey, three to five years. And I feel like that's when we try to examine it, make sense of it, and also wanna feel like we can move forward from that [00:31:00] examination that we wanna do. It's interesting. Yeah.

[00:31:04] Kaya- Kayla view: That is very interesting.

[00:31:06] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah, it's very interesting. So tell me a little bit about how you think this impacted you through your life.

[00:31:14] Kaya- Maya view: Because at 11, again, 11 is a very impressionable age, like your pre-teen, it's like, how do you think that's impacted you as you've gone through teenage years, pre-teen years, early adulthood, and now you know you're an adult and you're a mom too, so,

[00:31:33] Kaya- Kayla view: I'm a stepmom. Yeah.

[00:31:35] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. So like, talk about a connection with your stepmom too, right?

[00:31:39] Kaya- Maya view: Like that's, you're a stepmom. So tell me a little bit about what that was like. Like what was it like coming out of that and how did that shape you in your teenage years and you became inquisitive again, but tell us a little bit about what that was like and how that's impacted you in your life.

[00:31:54] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. So, I know that shortly after my sister died, I remember being like, I didn't [00:32:00] wanna go anywhere. I wanted to always be near my mom and make sure that like, I was okay and she was okay. Because at that point, life is short. Like that's IJI remember that always being a theme in my life.

[00:32:12] Kaya- Kayla view: Like, life is short. We never know when our time's, next, like, here my sister was a year and a half, like she barely got to live a life, so I'm like, okay, well here's my mom. She's lived a life and still has so much more to go, but God might say, Hey. It's her turn, so I remember being like, okay, I need to like, take every bit of the like, time I have and spend it with the people that I love.

[00:32:37] Kaya- Kayla view: And shortly after my sister passed in 2009, I believe that was the year my grandmother passed away, which was my mom's, my mom's mom. And my mom was very devastated. My mom has a very amount of siblings. My mom has not, there's nine of them. So, yeah, she is the second [00:33:00] oldest and she's basically raised all the siblings.

[00:33:02] Kaya- Kayla view: So, my mom was like a second mom to all of them. So when my grandma passed away, my mom had to take on a new role. And I remember being like. Oh my goodness. Like, and my grandmother's death was a lot different than my sister's because my grandma had cancer. So, it was a lot different. Also, I was not close with my grandma, like most kids are with their grandma.

[00:33:25] Kaya- Kayla view: Just because my grandma was and I always feel so mean saying this, but she was grumpy. Like, she was like always like, eh, so I just always, I loved her. She was my grandma, but loved her from a distance. So, I remember just being not stone cold, but like, I've been through this before when my grandma passed away.

[00:33:42] Kaya- Kayla view: Like I, I remember being sad, but I remember being like. I've been through this, like it, when my sister died and I remember thinking this stuff, I don't think I've ever said it, but I remember thinking to myself like, it was worse when my sister died. Like, and I would always have like these kind of thoughts in my [00:34:00] head and when other people would experience death.

[00:34:02] Kaya- Kayla view: And I remember just thinking to myself, well, you didn't lose your sister at 11. But I never said it. But that's how I felt. Like, and when people would treat their siblings like poorly, I remember being so angry and for a long time in my life I'd be like, you should be lucky you have a sibling.

[00:34:19] Kaya- Kayla view: Like, and I would get really combative and sometimes as an adult I still feel that way because, you hear people like. Oh, I hate my sibling and I hate this. And I'm like, I would kill to have my sister back. Like, and here you are talking, so Ill about your sibling. Like, and I get it. Like me and my middle sister, we have our issues too.

[00:34:40] Kaya- Kayla view: And like, I'll be like, oh, she's such a jerk. But at the end of the day, I always remind her like, Hey, I love you. And that will never change. Like I, she could literally do anything to me, and I would never stop loving her because after I lost my sister, siblings became so much more [00:35:00] important. Like, like my sister was like.

[00:35:03] Kaya- Kayla view: My right hand. Like I could not do anything without thinking. Like, is my sister okay? Is my sister okay? Is she, is everything all right with her mom? Like, and when my sister would get hurt, like, oh my goodness, I would take it to the whole other level. Like, mom, she just fell down the stairs. Or if she just fell off this, and I, I'd be like, is she okay?

[00:35:22] Kaya- Kayla view: And I just remember being very like, anxious about that all the time. And as an adult, like I went my entire life with anxiety, didn't know it. Like, I literally just thought like, oh, that's just me, that's my personality. And finally, as an adult can't even remember how old I was. I was the early twenties.

[00:35:41] Kaya- Kayla view: I finally was like, you know what? I need to get on some anxiety medications. Like, I just cannot do it. Like, I'm, like, I constantly have a racing heart, like, and I always think the worst thing's gonna happen and. And I bring it back to losing my sister so young. Like I just always thought bad things were gonna [00:36:00] happen and 

[00:36:00] Kaya- Maya view: I feel like this is a theme this year, on this season, I should say, Kayla, because we've talked about this in a couple episodes, and if you guys haven't listened to 'em yet, you will, you'll hear it as a theme. A lot of us talking about anxiety because I am a fellow anxiety sufferer, but what I think is so interesting, and I've shared this on other episodes before, but like for me, I struggled with anxiety because of a lot of really difficult family dynamics, a lot of trauma in my youth, and it was like.

[00:36:29] Kaya- Maya view: I did a lot of work in my twenties to overcome that. And I took medication. I did a lot of therapy. I did a lot of intensive therapy with like work around it. And it's interesting because I felt and then had some really dysfunctional relationships and then I was feeling in a really good place and then my brother was murdered, right?

[00:36:50] Kaya- Maya view: And so it was like, and that just the panic attack started again and the medication was needed again. And like, and I stayed on medication until probably [00:37:00] about two, three years ago. And then it's gone. But I needed it. I needed it for a good four to five years. Yeah, for sure. And there's no shame in that.

[00:37:09] Kaya- Maya view: And I just love when you guys come on here and are so open about that because there's no like. Why should you live miserably? Right. And like I realized that I had, in my twenties, I took medication and then I was like, okay. And then I went back on it again with my brother and I'm off it now. But who knows what will happen again in the future?

[00:37:27] Kaya- Maya view: And I have no problem asking for that help. And I think that's a gift. And I think that's okay. And I think it's really good because something I struggle with in my life is asking for help. And so I think this was a good thing for me to learn. It's okay to ask for that, and that was a part of that. But what I think is so interesting with you and what you're talking about is that a lot of people who lose a sibling at a young age, or lose anyone at a young age, but we talk about sibling loss of course.

[00:37:55] Kaya- Maya view: This manifests in different ways in your life. And for you, [00:38:00] it manifested in anxiety. And also it's a common theme as well, having the kind of, again, we're talking about this a lot this season, which I love. Catastrophizing. Like, oh my God, my sister fell on the stairs. She's gonna die. You know what I mean?

[00:38:16] Kaya- Maya view: Those are the things that go through our head. And like, I experienced that at 30 years old. I was thinking that my dogs were gonna, I'm like, oh my God. Like I now am aware of it and I'm like, Maya, you locked all your doors, Maya. You set the alarm, Maya, the dogs have not run out the back door.

[00:38:31] Kaya- Maya view: There's no back door open. Like, but I've learned the tools to do that. So I can only imagine Kayla like. Having that kind of start at 11 'cause you're catastrophizing always, and like you so beautifully po Like with your sister, you were like, mom, she fell on the stairs. Like, is she gonna, like, you're not maybe finishing the sentence, but in your mind or in your anxiety or like, is she gonna die too?

[00:38:57] Kaya- Maya view: Like, it's like, those are the things that, and so I think it's [00:39:00] really amazing that, in the past, few years of your life, you're like, you know what, maybe I need some help with this. And so where are you today with that? Do you still feel like you go to that kind of catastrophic or extreme place?

[00:39:13] Kaya- Maya view: Because I will, I still will. And I'm half the time as you, but like I've learned tools to help me. Does that make sense? And what has that been like for you, if you wanna share that with us?

[00:39:26] Kaya- Kayla view: So yes, I do still do that. I usually can talk myself out of it. I, and I always describe myself as I'm very good at talking to myself. And a lot of times it's internal, so I'm like, okay, Kayla, just relax. It's not that serious. Like, just take a breath. Like you do not need to freak out.

[00:39:46] Kaya- Kayla view: And before I got medicated, like, and I use this story all the time because this is how I knew I needed help. So I'm sitting on the couch and my stepdaughter had a watch. She had put an alarm on it [00:40:00] and it was in the toy box. I'm sitting on the couch and all of a sudden this alarm starts going off. I'm all by myself.

[00:40:07] Kaya- Kayla view: I started panicking. I literally thought there was like a bomb in our house. Like I just went nuts. And it took me so long to calm down after that I was like, okay, this is not normal. Like I should have, like my brain should have said, Hey, it's just a watch. Relax. You don't need to freak out. But no, I just literally was like, oh my gosh, what is that ticking noise?

[00:40:31] Kaya- Kayla view: It's a bomb. Oh my gosh, our house is gonna blow up. And then I found the watch, I was relieved, had relief, but I was like, whoa, why did this just do this to me? And I couldn't calm down. Like I remember saying to my he was my boyfriend at the time, but now my fiance, I'm like. Hey, like I just had a major freakout moment.

[00:40:51] Kaya- Kayla view: Like I thought that I was going to like die because this noise was so like alarming and random, like it was just not [00:41:00] planned. So I just started freaking out and I remember him thinking like, yeah, you probably overreact, reacted. And I was like, I think I need help. Like I think I need medication.

[00:41:10] Kaya- Kayla view: And he's not big on medications, but he's like, if that's what you think you need, go ahead and do it. And even to this day, like he'll say like occasionally, like, I'm so glad you got medication, because I was crazy. Like there were certain things that I would just flip out about and it was like.

[00:41:27] Kaya- Kayla view: Things that I couldn't control. And as an adult, like I think even with my sister dying, like I have control issues. I have to have everything planned out. If it doesn't go the way I want or if someone doesn't follow what I want, I oh my gosh, well, I thought about this and if this doesn't work, then this is gonna happen, happen.

[00:41:45] Kaya- Kayla view: So gonna, yeah. I still struggle with some of this stuff, like as an adult now, and, I try to walk myself through it, but some things I just can't because it's already gotten too far.

[00:41:57] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah.

[00:41:58] Kaya- Kayla view: It does affect my adult life, like [00:42:00] all the time. So

[00:42:02] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. But I think it's great that you're like your fiance. Was supportive and like, I think it's an I, and it's interesting too because our partners, and this is something I hear from a lot of people too, that like loss really impacts your relationships, right? And so while he may not have been a huge fan of medication or like, was like, but if you need to do that, I love that he was supportive and I love that he sees the other side of it now and how it has helped you.

[00:42:28] Kaya- Maya view: And I think that's really, I get so many questions all the time. Like, hey, I have an un, like I have a spouse that doesn't understand or isn't super supportive, like how do I'm like they gotta just be open and understand where you are and meet you where you are. If they haven't been through that type of loss that we've been through, they're probably not going to understand.

[00:42:47] Kaya- Maya view: But it's a, it's the ability to say. I don't understand this, or maybe this isn't how I would do it, but if it's gonna help you and just be there for you. And I think that's really great that he did that. I think [00:43:00] that's really great because I think it's really important that we connect with each other because we are the only ones that really understand it.

[00:43:06] Kaya- Maya view: But our partners, our family, people who might not have been through it or friends, like that's what it's about. What you just talked about is just supporting us and being real. Like, maybe I don't understand this, but I'm gonna support you through it. And what's interesting is if you have a strong friendship, marriage, and partnership, they're going to get it as they see you do the things that you need to do for yourself, just like you did.

[00:43:32] Kaya- Maya view: And I think that's interesting that was like a turning point for you. You were like, oh my God, I thought a watch was a bomb. I've gotta do something for myself. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's

[00:43:43] Kaya- Kayla view: And it was, and I remember thinking like for a long time, like it was a joke, like, oh yeah, I have anxiety. And I even remember as a kid, like my dad saying to me all the time, and this was post my sister passing, take a chill pill, and I'd be like. Oh, my [00:44:00] dad's so funny.

[00:44:00] Kaya- Kayla view: I need a chill pill. But like, as I started getting older, I'd be like, I don't need a chill pill. Like I'd start combating at it like, le like, leave me alone. I don't need a chill pill. And then as an adult and 29 years old now I'm like, I actually did need a chill pill. And guess what? That chill pill has made my life so much better.

[00:44:19] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. That's so cute. I did need a chill pill. It's interesting because I was told the same thing when I was young. People were like, oh my God, Maya like, just calm, calm down. My dad used to say stuff like that to me too. He'd be like, oh my God, calm down. I was way too intense for my dad as a child, and I remember him being like that, but like now I can see it so clearly.

[00:44:38] Kaya- Maya view: I'm like, this is decades later. So I'm like, oh, I was. An anxiety mess. Like that's why not that way. Yeah. So I wanna go back just a little bit to Kayla. So when you were unable to see your dad once they did, I wanna talk, since we're talking about your dad, once they did the autopsy and they found the peanut and all of [00:45:00] that, you were able to see your dad again, right?

[00:45:03] Kaya- Maya view: Like, that was all lifted. Okay. So that kind of concluded everything. Okay. I wanted to ask that. And then I also wanted to ask you what you've touched on it a couple times, so wanna address it and talk about it because I am, I envision this probably happening. Of course, people are like. Pointing fingers, right?

[00:45:21] Kaya- Maya view: And going like, who? Who did the peanut? Who did the peanut? Did you guys ever move past that as a family? And who was really, like, were there specific people that were relentless about the blaming and like, were there some people that were just like, you know what, it happened And did you guys ever have theories about how this could have happened?

[00:45:42] Kaya- Maya view: But I will say also in this question, like she was one, probably when that was, or a couple months old when that initially happened. And so one and a half had she passed, I mean it could have been anything, anywhere, any, just any kind of accident. I feel like the true catastrophe is with [00:46:00] the hospital, which is why they won their case.

[00:46:02] Kaya- Maya view: But I'm just curious about your perspective of what was going on in, in the ecosystem and did that continue to go on even after you got the results? I have so many questions around that.

[00:46:12] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. Shortly after we got the results my dad and stepmom separated. My dad and her hated each other. And that was up until probably the last five to eight years. They now get along now, which I'm just amazed with because I never saw that coming. Like, I never thought that day would come.

[00:46:34] Kaya- Kayla view: But

[00:46:34] Kaya- Maya view: Talk about the beauty and healing, right? Like yeah. 

[00:46:37] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. I never thought that would come, and my dad like struggled a lot as my stepmom did, but they struggled in different ways. Like my stepmom was more like she was crying all the time. Like she used to, I describe it as she used to spend the night at the graveyard, like to just say the least.

[00:46:56] Kaya- Kayla view: Like, she would go up there and spend [00:47:00] hours upon hours at the graveyard. She had everything still the same from when my sister passed. Like my sister's bedroom was the same for. Oh my God, years. Years. She had stuff that my sister had drank. Before she passed. She had food that she had ate before she passed that she didn't finish.

[00:47:18] Kaya- Kayla view: We used to go to the graveyard and every birthday we would go there and we would sing Happy Birthday with a cake, and we would put some cake in the ground for my sister, but then we wouldn't eat the cake. So then the cake would sit in my stepmother's freezer. And that went on for years. And then finally it was like, okay, I'm running outta room.

[00:47:37] Kaya- Kayla view: I don't have room for these cakes. Like we started eating them. So, and I remember thinking like, holy crap, we're eating these cakes. Like, what the heck? And then. My stepmom moved from that house. And I remember being so like, like, that's our house. Like that's our house. That's our last connection to her.

[00:47:56] Kaya- Kayla view: And the reason was, is like, so my sister's [00:48:00] bedroom had to be taken down anyways because she had my stepbrother ian. So she had him and he took my sister's room, which I don't mean took like in a mean way, but he had to have my sister's room. So, she had to take everything down, which was a toll in itself.

[00:48:16] Kaya- Kayla view: Like that was very emotional for everyone as well. So after that, she had then had her second son and it was like there wasn't enough room there. So she. Was moving out with her hus, well then husband and my brothers. So she moved from that place and I remember being like, oh my gosh, that's our last connection.

[00:48:34] Kaya- Kayla view: And then now as an adult, like they remodeled that house. And I just like, still, like every time I drive past it, I'm like, why did they have to do that? Like, just because like that's like, I wanted it to be the same forever. But my dad then ventured down into drugs and alcohol and, we had a very tough childhood, while he was going through his addictions, it was primarily just my mom taking care of [00:49:00] us because my dad had his own things he had going on.

[00:49:03] Kaya- Kayla view: We still saw our dad, but he had his own addictions that he was trying to battle and overcome. Now here we are, 20, 25, and my dad is sober as can be, has not touched anything in decades. And he's very religious now. So, he watches his religious TV shows every day and, reads the Bible every day.

[00:49:26] Kaya- Kayla view: So my dad has, healed and overcome came that, he doesn't speak of my sister. Sometimes, I'm like, dad, can we just say her name one time? Because like my dad just, he shut it out. Like, and sometimes I describe it as like. To him. My sister never existed, but like I know that's not true.

[00:49:44] Kaya- Kayla view: I just know that's how he's grieving it. And we try to include him every year 'cause we go to the graveyard and, on her anniversary and then also her birthday and we try to include him and, he's so deep into his spirit, [00:50:00] spiritual, I can't even talk spear, I can't talk, he's in his journey where he is now to the point he's like, your sister's no longer there. She's not at the grave site, she's in heaven. There's nothing there for us anymore. And. I can't look past that. Like that's where the last place my sister rested. So to me, she's still there.

[00:50:20] Kaya- Kayla view: So he won't go with us to that kind of stuff, so you feel like, okay, he shut it all out. But my grandparents a few years back, reached out to my dad, invited him to church, and there's now a relationship there too. And it feels so good as an adult to have that where everybody is now mutually.

[00:50:41] Kaya- Kayla view: On the same page. Like, 'cause when I was a kid, my mom would secretly let me go see them. Like, because she knew how much I needed that. Like, because that was the closest connection I had to my sister. Like my stepmom was my sister's mother, so to me, like that's all I had left. Like I needed to keep [00:51:00] that relationship.

[00:51:01] Kaya- Kayla view: And my mom understood that, like, 'cause I would be crying like, mom, please just let me go there, please. And she allowed it. And I thank her for that because it really helped me grieve over the years. And I think it helped my stepmom too. I really do. Because even as an adult, we are still very close.

[00:51:20] Kaya- Kayla view: And we were not very far apart. Like I she's in her forties. I'm 29, so, she wasn't much older than me. But I feel like we have a different connection as adults now. So, and I'm thankful for that.

[00:51:31] Kaya- Maya view: Yeah. Like as you get older it changes everything. But like when you're younger, you're like, you could be sisters technically. So it's like Yeah. It's a whole dynamic. Yeah. Been there, done that. Got the T-shirt. Yeah, I get it. I've been that person who has like, yeah, kiddos, like close in age and it's an interesting thing, but I think yeah, as you get older, the dynamic changes a little bit and I love that you have that relationship with her.

[00:51:53] Kaya- Maya view: I think that's so awesome. Yeah. And I think it's awesome that you guys go to the graveside and I think it's cool. I [00:52:00] love what she did with the cakes. Like I love all of that. I think it's so awesome. Awesome. But I will say I am happy for you too because like, and happy for your family because.

[00:52:09] Kaya- Maya view: Hearing your dad's journey and how he grieved with it. He was, it sounds like he was numbing and then he found a spiritual outlet for it. And I think this is something that comes up a lot for us as siblings is we're, you are in a really healthy place with it because you're like, this is how my dad grieves.

[00:52:26] Kaya- Maya view: It's not how I grieve. I connect more with my stepmom in the grief journey, obviously. 'cause you see why she does what she does and why she's done what she's done. But I think you're in a really good place of respecting your dad where he is and meeting him where he's at. And I can also understand if you are.

[00:52:43] Kaya- Maya view: Really on the religious side of spirituality that we do. Folks that are super religious, if you're super religious listening to this, some of us are spiritual as well as religious, but those who are more religious are like, you go to heaven. Like you're, that the body is, [00:53:00] it is what it is. And I think it's great that you're respecting that and meeting him there because he's in a healthy place now.

[00:53:07] Kaya- Maya view: And so this is healthy if this is how he wants to grieve. Yeah. It's much healthier than the numbing that addiction does for

[00:53:15] Kaya- Kayla view: absolutely. Yeah.

[00:53:17] Kaya- Maya view: think it's, I think it's really good, but I think it's a testament of like, it's been so many years for you guys, and I often say this on the show and like in our.

[00:53:27] Kaya- Maya view: Different things that we do. Events, groups, things like that. Like I always say that like time doesn't heal all wounds, but time does allow you to heal, right? And it, it allows for the opportunity for you to evolve. And I think that all of you in the family show that, like with your dad finding his spiritual path with you, understanding your anxiety and understanding what your triggers are and like what you need for yourself and your stepmom.

[00:53:52] Kaya- Maya view: She got this other chance to become a mom and like, and she still honors Ashley and like with the cakes and the, going to the [00:54:00] Yeah. The graves that I think that's really beautiful. Kayla, and I think it's a really it's a tough story, but I think and the pointing that everybody did at everybody else, I just, I have to highlight that again because I think that's supernatural and super normal.

[00:54:13] Kaya- Maya view: And it's something I talk about a lot because I think when we're grieving, it's easier. To be angry at someone versus to be angry at the unknown. Right. And I've done it. Everybody's done it. We, and I think you guys are all in a much healthier place now because at the end of the day, things happen with young children, things happen in life.

[00:54:36] Kaya- Maya view: And so there was a miss on the fact that it showed up and it was missed. That's really where the missed opportunity was. It wasn't about the fact, kids are sticking stuff up their nose and ears and, all the time. You know what I mean? Like, things can happen and it's, it's it's a tragedy.

[00:54:54] Kaya- Maya view: But I think this has been a really good story to tell and share. I wanna ask you [00:55:00] this before we wrap Kayla, and then of course, anything else you wanna add? What's, what advice would you give to someone who's lost a sibling at such a young age? Because we do get a lot of folks, and we have told other stories about siblings who have lost.

[00:55:13] Kaya- Maya view: A sibling at a young age, but you are the youngest sharer as far as the age that your sibling was. So what advice or what kind of hope would you give to those listening? Because often people who join, I'll add this part to often people who join like lives or different things that I do or write to me and they say like, Hey, I lost my sibling.

[00:55:36] Kaya- Maya view: They were only a couple days old, or they were only a couple months old, or they were, one or two. Like, does that count? I'm like, oh my God. Of course that counts because you were here having the experience, you were here having the experience. You have a connection to that sweet baby, however old they were.

[00:55:54] Kaya- Maya view: So I just wanted to add that part of it as well, because I do get that question a lot. So I would love to hear what advice you [00:56:00] would have or anything you would go back and maybe tell young Kayla that

[00:56:03] Kaya- Kayla view: Yeah. Yeah. So one of the main things that I would give as an advice is just let yourself feel those emotions. Like I spent so many years just like holding it all inside and the only time I would let it out is March, because my sister was born in March and she died in March. So I would only allow myself to like let those emotions out in March, and then I close back up.

[00:56:32] Kaya- Kayla view: And that's caused me a lot of grief over the years because I just was never comfortable like sharing like how I felt anytime outside of March because one, I didn't think people cared and like you just said, I always was like, well, my sister died at a year and a half. People aren't gonna think well.

[00:56:53] Kaya- Kayla view: At least she didn't spend your whole life with her. Or like, oh, well my sister was blah, blah, blah. Like, I always felt like [00:57:00] people would compare to that. So I always just have I'm not gonna say anything. I'll keep it inside. But I feel that it is so important to just let it out. You need to show those feelings.

[00:57:10] Kaya- Kayla view: You need to talk to someone. Another thing that I've regretted in my life is I never got therapy. I never talked to anyone about it. Like, this is the first time that I've like put it all out there. So I had a lot of emotions behind this and I, last night, I'm like, oh my gosh, maybe I shouldn't say certain spots, like certain things, because I don't want people to be like, that's not how it went.

[00:57:31] Kaya- Kayla view: Or, I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Like I just wanted to tell my story. But then I realized, this is my story, this is how I saw it, this is how it went for me. And I think it's important to share that. So yeah, my biggest advice would be. Just allow yourself to feel everything you're feeling because it, you can't hold it inside.

[00:57:53] Kaya- Kayla view: And if you do, you're going to regret it later because I do. I wish I would've just let myself [00:58:00] feel.

[00:58:00] Kaya- Maya view: I love that advice, Kayla. And you're also the example that when you hold it in, like it comes out, so it's gonna come out one way or the other. So you might as well just. Know when you, when it's happening. As much as you're comfortable with too, because we are on our own grief timeline for sure.

[00:58:14] Kaya- Maya view: Kayla, I definitely think your story is gonna relate and connect with a lot of people. Where are you comfortable with people reaching out to you? If again, they connect with this or if they have any questions for you?

[00:58:25] Kaya- Kayla view: Anyone can reach out to me on my Facebook. I'm more active on Facebook, so I would say if you wanna reach out on Facebook. I do have Instagram, but I don't really get on there very much. So I would say Facebook Messenger would probably be best. My page is under Kayla Updyke.

[00:58:40] Kaya- Maya view: Perfect. Okay. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Kayla, thank you so much for sharing your story and Ashley's story with us. We really appreciate it.

[00:58:49] Kaya- Kayla view: Thank you for having me. This 

[00:58:51] Kaya- Kayla view: has been an amazing journey for me and I'm so glad to add it to my healing process because this has really helped me. So thank you [00:59:00] Maya for having me. And thank you as listeners for listening to my story.

[00:59:03] Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings Podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

[00:59:27] And don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms. We're on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Surviving Siblings Podcast. All links can be found in the show notes, so be sure to check those out too. Thank you again for the support. Until the next episode, keep on surviving my surviving [01:00:00] siblings.