Jessica Loses Aaron To Drowning

Jessica Loses Aaron To Drowning-Podcast
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[00:00:00] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Hey guys, welcome back to the surviving siblings podcast. Today I have another bereaved sibling on who is super incredible. Jessica, welcome to the show.

[00:00:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Thanks for having me.

[00:00:48] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, Jessica. I, as I mentioned earlier, I'm excited to have you here today. And it's such a weird thing to say that, but I really am excited to have you here and sharing your story. You lost your brother, [00:01:00] Aaron, at such a young age, and he was so young and you lost him in such a unique way. I think your story is going to be so important to our audience.

[00:01:10] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So Jessica, I'd love for you to dive in and tell us a little bit about. Where you were 11 when you lost Aaron. So tell us a little bit about your family dynamic, what was going on, and then of course we're going to get into how we lost sweet baby Aaron. He was so young.

[00:01:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Yeah. So, I'm the oldest of three siblings. I have a sister who's five years younger and my brother was eight years younger than me. And throughout my mom's pregnancies of her three living children, there were like multiple miscarriages, a stillborn. There was a lot of difficulty getting pregnant.

[00:01:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And so my mom got pregnant and had her last child. Had my brother Aaron at the age of 41, which at the time in 1997 was really big and it was without the use of IVF. So if you think now, most people are having kids in their late [00:02:00] thirties, early forties, it's definitely happening. Sometimes with or without IBF, but at the time, like for my parents, like that was their miracle baby and that was their son, it's the youngest child, it's the son, this is a huge deal.

[00:02:13] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Just a really doted upon little baby boy. Very loved by everyone. And so in 1997, my parents at the time owned a condo in Scottsdale, Arizona. They had purchased one and my mom's childhood best friend had also purchased a condo in the same complex. And. To my understanding, I think there were some other family members of ours from the Chicago area who had also purchased second homes.

[00:02:38] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: There was a new development. People were buying 2nd homes. All of our parents were in that era in Chicago. Most people need to snowboard somewhere. So everybody's getting these condos. I don't know how long we owned it. And I'm not really sure how many times we went to go visit, but I have very core memories of going there and being at the condo and like the Disney [00:03:00] sheets I had on my bed.

[00:03:01] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Like I just had some very core memories of being there. And at the same time, my dad also has a cousin who has some kids who are my age who live out in Scottsdale. So we had family out there. We had a lot of happy memories down in Scottsdale and about a week before, a couple of weeks before sixth grade.

[00:03:18] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: My mom and her best friend decided to take a road trip with four kids. My parents had bought one of those really nice like conversion vans, the ones that had like the TV and the Nintendo 64. This was like before. You can have the camping vans and everything. And that was a huge deal and it was a great car for road trips.

[00:03:36] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: It was a great car for entertaining kids. And my mom's best friend and her son came with us and she was a single mom and her son is about a year younger than me. So there were two, tweens. And then my sister at the time who was six. And my brother at the time who was three and the two moms and the four kids drove across the country.

[00:03:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I think it took us two or three days and we got to our [00:04:00] individual condos in the same complex and settled in for the night. And the next morning was our first day there. Everybody goes down to the pool first thing. My sister, my brother myself and this other child in our family the two moms.

[00:04:14] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And then it, I was told recently I actually went back and asked my mom's best friend. I said, what do you remember from this day? Cause there's a lot of questions that I haven't really asked for nearly 30 years. I can't ask my parents. There's a lot of people who weren't there that day, but she did speak so candidly with me about this and she was so gracious to offer all this information.

[00:04:36] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: She reminded me that there was another family at the pool that day, a mom with a couple of kids, maybe around seven or eight, she thinks. And we're playing. We're, I'm was a gymnast at the time. So I think I was like doing handstands in one side of the pool. There's a hot tub at the time in 97 kids were they call them water wings.

[00:04:55] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: They were those inflatable things that went on your arms.

[00:04:58] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Oh, I remember those, yes.[00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Yeah. Now, they wear the thing that goes around the chest with the buckle. It's much safer. Water wings are actually terribly unsafe. But at the time that was the safety device in 1997. And so my brother was wearing his water wings and he was an incredibly intelligent child for a three year old.

[00:05:16] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Like he, by the time he was three, he could ride a bike without training, like a real bicycle. Just a very like advanced child. And so the story that I remember it is that he had asked my mom to take off his water wings and she told him, yes, she took them off. And the next thing I know I'm underwater, I'm doing these handstands and my sister's like shaking me like, Jessica, something's wrong.

[00:05:41] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Something's wrong. And I'm like, well, what is wrong? What's wrong? I'm thinking what could possibly be wrong? She goes, something's wrong with Aaron. Well, by the time my brother was three, he had been to the hospital multiple times to get like stitches because he was one of those kids, like he would jump off things and get hurt or, he'd grab a glass off the countertop and it [00:06:00] would shatter and, like never, it was never abused.

[00:06:02] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: It was like truly this, just a wild little three year old. And so three year olds,

[00:06:05] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: He was a daredevil. He had no fear. Yeah.

[00:06:08] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: there was none. So I'm thinking, oh gosh, what did he do? Did he fall? Did he bump his head? What's going on? And I look up and it's, clearly something's really wrong. My mom is screaming at the top of her lungs.

[00:06:22] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: People are a mailman had jumped the fence into the pool area and the pool area was in the center of the community, of the Condo park. But it's, it's not, there's no lifeguard. It's just open for the community. Anyone who wants to use it. So there's no lifeguard on duty. And I see everyone on the side crowded around something and, I know what's going on at this point.

[00:06:44] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Something has happened to my brother. And a mailman had jumped the fence and started performing CPR and my mom's best friend reminded me. That this other family that was there, like, left pretty quickly. And I think maybe the mom just, like, didn't want her kids to be [00:07:00] exposed to this trauma, which I totally understand.

[00:07:02] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And my aunt reminded me, I call her my aunt, my mom's best friend, so I'll refer to her as my aunt. She reminded me that my mom, Realizing that something was very wrong had thrown herself down on the ground and had grabbed these like rocks and was like hitting herself in the head with the rock.

[00:07:19] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Because she wanted to kill herself because she knew that what had just happened to her son and that she knew that she was going to lose him. She was punishing herself for this. I had come to find out that maybe it was these other two children at the pool had told our family friend that was with us, this other child, your friend is down in the pool and so child that we were with swam down in the bottom of the pool and like brought my brother back up and was the one that got him out of the pool.

[00:07:48] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So the paramedics are called. All I remember is running. I remember being barefoot and running and it's Arizona. It's in the middle of August. It's a million degrees outside. And I remember my hot feet hitting the [00:08:00] pavement and I'm running and screaming for somebody to get me a phone because I have to call my dad.

[00:08:06] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: My dad was not with us at the time. He was going to be flying down either that day or the next day to meet us there. He had to stay home and work. So I need to call my dad. And this couple lets me into their condo and I'm paging him. At the time, everyone had pagers and that's how you got ahold of people.

[00:08:23] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And in our family, we had a system that if you hit a two, he would just call you back at home normally. But if you hit one on the pager, he knew it was an emergency and to call you back. And I never considered that he didn't know the phone number of where I was.

[00:08:40] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Sure. You're 11. Of course. You're like, just let me get in touch with dad. Yeah.

[00:08:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: right. Like I need to call my dad. Something is wrong. So I'm hitting, I'm calling and I'm paging him and I'm hitting 1 And I'm realizing now how awful and scary that must have been for him because he couldn't reach [00:09:00] us. There was no way to find us. So he's getting all these pages that something is wrong and he has no way to find us.

[00:09:05] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: There's no cell phones at this time. So, I somehow, I come back to the pool and I think my aunt had, was the one that to drive us to the hospital. And we get to the hospital. And I'm in the waiting room. My mom had been in the ambulance with my brother and my aunt had taken her son and me and my sister to the hospital.

[00:09:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I remember being in the waiting room and a doctor came out just very somber and looked at me and I just said, is he alive? Like, what is he? Okay. And he's like, you need to talk to your mom. And that's when I knew that he was gone. And I remember seeing my mom on the floor of this hospital room sobbing.

[00:09:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And just screaming that she was sorry, that she was sorry that she hated herself, that she wanted to die, that she was sorry this happened. Flash forward, my next memory is waking up in a bedroom at my cousin's [00:10:00] house in the town, in Scottsdale. So we had these cousins that lived there, my dad's cousins and his kids.

[00:10:07] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I remember waking up at their house. I don't even know what time of day and just pacing the room panicking, just thinking like, is this can't be my real life. This can't be happening. We aren't even really sure how we got there. They may have come and picked us up. So we ended up there. And then my next memory is visiting my mom in the hospital in Arizona still.

[00:10:30] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So, after my brother is gone, the next problem is that my mom needs to be sedated. She's on suicide watch. She wants to kill herself. My dad is not there. My dad has gotten ahold of somehow. And informed of what happened and him and his brother fly down immediately to come meet us. And I always just look back and think like how awful and how painful that must've been to had to have go gone to an airport, gotten in a [00:11:00] car, been drove to the airport, fly down, knowing that you're going to pick up your dead son, that long, long flight.

[00:11:08] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I always think about how painful that must've been for him. 

[00:11:11] We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host, Maya Rother. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor.

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[00:12:54] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I just want to say something here, Jessica. I so connect with that. And although I [00:13:00] wasn't young, I was younger than I am now. I lost my brother, but that's a whole other conversation. I think about that too with my dad, because my dad had to fly. As as you guys know, from listening to my story, he had to fly from Africa, 24 hour trip.

[00:13:16] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And I think about that all the time. And I'm like, Of course in the moment that was not something but it's like the reflections after which you're describing so beautifully I think about that all the time It's a conversation I had with my dad when I saw him a little over a year ago And I was like, you know I have such a deep empathy for you dad because I can't imagine because at that point he knew like my brother was not going To survive and same in your situation, right?

[00:13:43] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Like Aaron Had died like this that you're flying to go see your child who has died and that is can't imagine There's a strength in that like I can't imagine

[00:13:53] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I think now of just like, what would, I'm a parent now. And so I think about that and what that would be like. And I would have [00:14:00] done things completely different and not for the better because I couldn't have survived that. I don't think, and, but at the same time, they had two living children to attend to as well.

[00:14:12] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So I remember visiting my mom in this I don't know if it was a psych ward I remember it was just like a single story building. There was a courtyard, it's so hard to tell where we were and what was happening, and visiting her. And then the next memory I have is being in the airport there and we're wheeling my mom.

[00:14:30] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: In there, she's still sedated. Essentially. She's being wheeled through the airport in a wheelchair. And I'm aware that my brother's body is on board this plane, it's in the cargo hold or wherever it is that that bodies are held. And so I just remember being on this plane and everybody's staring at us.

[00:14:47] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And my parents are, we're all sobbing. I'm a child. I've, we're clearly not okay. We know that there's a body of our family member on board. And then we were picked up at the airport by [00:15:00] my dad's sister, who, due to some family dynamics growing up, I had actually never met her until this, yeah, there was some family tension that had gone on for many reasons before I was ever born but she was the one to pick us up from the airport, and that was the first time I truly met her and my cousins.

[00:15:17] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So we're Jewish, so part of in the Jewish faith is that you're supposed to bury the body within 24 hours. And I called the funeral home the other day because I wanted to be remembered. I wanted to be reminded of when we had the funeral because so much of this is hazy. And there aren't any good, reliable sources to ask for this information anymore.

[00:15:38] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And again, this all predates, online obituaries, things like that. So he died on August 12th, and we buried him on August 15th. So sometime between the 13th and 14th, we got home and there was a funeral at the local Jewish funeral home. I remember being in the waiting room that they keep the family in before the ceremony.

[00:15:59] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And my [00:16:00] dad had cut his tie. And there is a Jewish tradition of cutting a piece of clothing. And I swore I'd look this up before the podcast, but there is a significance to that. And I remember having to be explained like why that was. And that just seemed so confusing to me. It like why my dad was just cutting his tie in the middle.

[00:16:21] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I remember going out to the funeral. And I don't know how many people were there. It could have been 50. It could have been 300 at the time. It felt like hundreds of people were there. Hundreds. Sitting in the front sitting next to my parents and my sister and my grandmother who lived with us growing up my mom's mom.

[00:16:39] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And then the next week was Shiva. So during Shiva the point of a Shiva is to support the family during the first week after someone dies so that they're not alone. So people are constantly at your house bringing you food. Comforting you, making sure that you're never alone in your grief.

[00:16:57] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: One of the customs is, there's prayers [00:17:00] morning and night. And so there's constant, people, they call it davening. People are davening morning and night at our house. And all of the mirrors are covered up with newspaper because one of the things in, during Shiva is that you cover the mirrors to avoid vanity and to avoid seeing your own grief.

[00:17:19] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So there's a lot of interesting things that happen during Sheva and we are, we're, I was raised conservative Jewish, so, not Orthodox, not incredibly strict Jewish tradition, but at the same time, when something like this happens, it gets followed very closely, very regimented. And then a week later, sixth grade started,

[00:17:37] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Well, let me ask you this, Jessica, and then we're going to get into school because yeah, I want to hear, I want to hear how that happened for you, but I know about some of these traditions, but like I knew about the covering up of the mirrors and things like that. I think there's a lot of beauty in these traditions, but I'm curious, were they helpful to you?

[00:17:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Did you find it helpful because I could see both sides where it's extremely [00:18:00] overwhelming having people around all the time But there's also something i've had a few guests come on and a few experts come on and share about something called the grief bubble Which shiva helps you with that which the grief bubble is when you've got your loved ones around you So you're not having to quite face the world all alone yet And so I found that very interesting that i've had a few guests talk about that in their space so I But me personally in my grieving style, now that I know it, and a lot of you guys listening to this, I could see both sides.

[00:18:29] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Like it's super helpful to have people around you because they're supporting you during this and it takes away from just having to sit with your thoughts. But then there's also. Certain personality types and I think all of us at a point or another where we need that space. So I'm curious about your perspective and how that felt for you at 11 because that's a lot.

[00:18:50] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I think at the time it was probably helpful It took the, like attention off of me and my sister. And it gave us people to take [00:19:00] away some of the pain we were feeling. And there were people around to help our parents because ultimately, as we know, it's part of the whole reason this podcast is here is because we get forgotten.

[00:19:11] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: My aunt, when I talked to her last week, she reminded me that, she goes, your mom was actually okay. During the Shiva week, because there were so many people around but it wasn't until afterwards that I think we realized the extent of how bad it was. My second grade teacher became a very good friend of our family.

[00:19:29] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So this was four years after I'd had her as my teacher. And she reminded me a few years ago that she was the one, she had to come upstairs in our house and get my mom dressed for the funeral. So we had this really beautiful community of people around us. I just mentioned my mom's mom lived with us growing up.

[00:19:45] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: We have a coach house on our property. And when my grandfather died, I was young. And so she moved into our coach house. And so we always had her too, which was a huge part of our, Childhood about our child [00:20:00] rearing is having this third adult this really safe space for us, this person who experienced the grief a little bit differently and it wasn't quite as heavy to have to be around her in that grief.

[00:20:12] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So she was there with us and, she essentially became like my mom's protector. Over the course of my life. So, yeah, I remember, let's see, a friend of ours, our, I went to a K to 8, so it was very close knit community. A lot of the kids that I just saw at my 20th high school reunion were people who I've known since kindergarten

[00:20:31] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: That's so cool. I

[00:20:32] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: is, and so a lot of these people have became, like surrogate parents and family to us during that time and really, Sat with us in service.

[00:20:41] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I remember one of them being the person that take me to get, sixth grade, I needed some new clothes for school and nobody's in the right mind to take me to the local Marshall fields or Macy's or JCPenney. So I remember one of our friend's parents taking me there and there's a lot of bits and pieces like that over the next few years of other people's [00:21:00] parents stepping in to be a part of that.

[00:21:02] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I think that's really beautiful that you had that community and that support. But I think a lot of us don't right going through that. And so I think that's really wonderful. But there's another but in there, but you're, you still had your mom who was really struggling through this.

[00:21:16] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And all of you guys were struggling through this. This is a very intense loss, especially to go through at a young age. And so I'm curious, how did this impact you going in, you're going into sixth grade, which is like, that's a big year, like, you're 11 almost like preteen, there's a lot going on.

[00:21:33] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So how did this kind of play out for you over the next few years? And how did this shape you? Because I think a lot of people can connect with that part of the journey and then also, your mother and how she was doing and how that impacted you. I'd be curious to know that, Jessica.

[00:21:50] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Yeah, it's a good question. Most teenagers, most tweens, they're pretty careless. They don't worry about a lot of things. They get called to the principal's office. They [00:22:00] think, they're in trouble or, my mom's bringing my lunch that I forgot. I would get called to the principal's office or the front office and immediately think someone in my family was dead.

[00:22:10] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: That was like a gut reaction every time. And it could be something as simple as my grandma was dropping off my homework for me that I had forgotten that morning. But every time I was called up there I thought someone was dead. Anytime somebody needed to talk to me and pull me aside, I assumed something was severely wrong.

[00:22:28] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And growing up, even like through high school, a lot of high schoolers are pretty dumb kids. I remember one time. My friend, we were in a parking lot in the wintertime and she was doing doughnuts in her car. And the other kids were all, we're all in the car and the other kids are like laughing and oh, this is funny.

[00:22:43] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I'm thinking about how dangerous this is and how we could all die and like always thinking through this very worst case scenario. When it's not hypochondria, but it's anxiety. It's always thinking through About somebody is going to die. Somebody is going to die doing this. This is going to really [00:23:00] hurt somebody.

[00:23:01] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I guess it's good to always be, to be cautious, maybe doing donuts in the parking lot at 17 wasn't the best idea that we've ever had.

[00:23:08] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah.

[00:23:09] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Probably no one was going to die.

[00:23:11] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And so I think, there was a lot of anxiety that I didn't realize until how bad it was until I had my daughter, which we can get into later.

[00:23:20] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And in terms of my parents, there, it was, it still is, it's a really heavy, hard situation. My mom has always been very emotionally, I guess I want to call it fragile in that, like, I'm not certain. I'm pretty certain that there might have been abuse in her life growing up that I'm not privy to.

[00:23:41] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: She has multiple diagnoses right now are very common of someone that's experienced this and other types of trauma. She's had a lot of trauma in her life. And even before my brother died, having miscarriages and is still born and experiencing different types of loss in her life.

[00:23:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: She lost her dad. I was five years old. So my mom must have [00:24:00] been in her like late or like early forties to have lost her dad so young. Yeah, no, her late thirties. And so this really was obviously the thing that is going to break somebody and it did break her. She's never been put back together.

[00:24:17] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And couple that with the fact that my dad is a, he's a textbook narcissist. I love him. He is a great provider. He provided a beautiful life for us, but not at the expense, at much of the expense of family happiness. Different types of abuse that aren't physical and not sexual, there's mental abuse, there's emotional abuse and there's financial abuse.

[00:24:40] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: In one way, shape or form, my sister, myself, and my mom experienced all of those. And my mom especially took the brunt of it because he openly blamed her in front of people. You killed my son. How could you let this happen?

[00:24:53] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: It's almost like you don't, I don't blame him for being angry at her because I think if the roles had been reversed, [00:25:00] truly, I look at it and I think if my mom had been at home and my dad was the parent quote unquote in charge, she probably would have murdered him.

[00:25:08] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I'll be so it's just the honest to God truth. And so I think about the fact that, he stayed with her. He stayed with her to take care of her. He, they did their best to keep our family together. They put us in therapy right away. My mom was obviously in therapy from day zero, probably even before that.

[00:25:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: My, but my dad never went to therapy. I envision, I think he probably talked to his rabbi. He doesn't have a lot of friends, he's a workaholic. And so he escaped to work 24 seven. And he's angry and he's still angry. He's really mellowed out in his old age and especially as a grandfather now, but he's angry.

[00:25:48] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And my mom is incredibly depressed and she just hates herself to this day. Even despite she's very loved by a lot of people, [00:26:00] but she will never, ever forgive herself. And it's manifested itself in so many ways over our life. And it's been hard to watch and it's been hard to. Stand by that because it's such a harsh reminder of what we've all gone through, but I don't blame her again.

[00:26:21] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Like, I will never, I've never once felt that I've blamed my mom for what happened. I believe there are accidents in life and this was an accident. I'm also deeply spiritual and that I believe we all have a soul contract when we come into this world. And

[00:26:38] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: too.

[00:26:39] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: my brother's soul contract. It was three years and, one month and, was it 30 something days?

[00:26:45] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I don't blame anyone for what happened, not a single person. And I don't blame my mom for feeling the way she does because as a mother, I think about it. This happens to me. There is no way that I'm sticking around in this lifetime.

[00:26:58] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah.

[00:26:59] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: [00:27:00] Yeah,

[00:27:01] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: as a mother and I think. Where you're at, Jessica, in your grief journey and like where you've Managed to find yourself decades later. I think is really beautiful. I just have to tell you that because, I'm, I think it's difficult when you can blame somebody or there can be some blame, but at the end of the day, is that really productive?

[00:27:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And it happened. Is it really, I think there's so many beautiful things that you're saying in this. And I think it's really wonderful that you're able to empathize with both your mother and your father, despite Some things that they've gone through in their life and I really connect with a lot of your story because my mother is very much the same way as a lot of you guys know from listening to the episodes like she, I know with complete confidence.

[00:27:47] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I found out much later in life that she has had a lot of trauma. Starting all the way back in childhood, didn't really know a lot of it until later and it's. It came seeping out. She had a lot of losses, a lot of miscarriages too. So I connect with that [00:28:00] before I ever even came around. So yeah, I think it's, I think as you grow and move through all of this, it's super helpful to be able to have that empathy and understand where your, maybe your other surviving siblings are coming from, or where your parents are coming from, or where other people in the world The ecosystem that you're in as a family, when you do lose a sibling, where they're coming from.

[00:28:25] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Cause I think it's really beautiful that despite your father being a narcissist, which I can relate to that as well. And going through some trials with that as well. It's, You can see where he's angry and where that, but what I think is interesting is that the way that both of your parents manifested, like their grief has manifested and all of that, it's something that they've held on to.

[00:28:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So it's their life is manifested and it's something we talk about a lot here on the show and in our events and support groups and things that we do that. you can choose to sit in that emotion or that particular stage of grief or [00:29:00] whatever you want to call it, whatever makes sense for you, but it will manifest physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and all of these ways in your life.

[00:29:08] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And that was something on my journey personally, where anger was like, I was stuck. I was very stuck. So I can relate to your father on that one. And then I remember I've had to make a conscious decision. I've got to break free of this. This is going to destroy me. And that's when everything really changed for me.

[00:29:24] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And so I know you were 11, but was there, and this is such a journey for you because when you lose a sibling at a young age, like it's you're going through this the majority of your life. So you so eloquently put what your mom the self loathing, the depression that, which her side, your father was the anger, were there some key emotions for you that have stood out or maybe come up throughout your experience over the, it's decades now for you, which is interesting.

[00:29:53] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: it is decades. I I think, empathy is a big one where you either [00:30:00] develop it or, you either have it or you don't, you develop it or you don't. I don't think that there's any true silver lining to losing a child or losing a sibling, but I think I don't think I would be the person I am today and I am far from perfect.

[00:30:14] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I am not always good to my parents or my sister for that matter. But we all, we all do our best with the hand we've been dealt, but I think empathy developed so deeply out of this for truly anyone going through suffering, going through mental health issues. Mental health in our family was never, it was never a secret that mom is not well.

[00:30:38] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: When people started having these mental health conversations more openly, maybe in the past decade, this was like old news to my family. I'm thinking what no one else has been talking about this. We've been talking about this for 20 years, but that's because there was no hiding it. There was no shying away from the fact that like mom is not well.

[00:30:57] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And with good reason, she's not well. [00:31:00] Despite everything she tried to do. for herself and for us. For me, I think looking back, it was a lot of anxiety. It was a lot of fearing the worst. The worst can always happen and will happen because the worst thing in the world did happen to me. And I think a lot of grief.

[00:31:18] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: The reason I really wanted to tell my story is because I think It's different in a lot of the literature that's out there right now. A lot of the research, a lot of the content. Your podcast Maya is so beautiful. And at the same time, it's a lot of stories of adults who lost siblings. And just because that's the people, those people who are speaking, nobody's going to go interview a 13 year old about losing their sibling.

[00:31:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: But there are people like me who have lost siblings as Children, and they're just right now isn't a lot of content or research or literature out there about this. And I've always shared my story with people because I think a it explains a lot [00:32:00] about who I am when I'm overly fearful of things. If I'm overly emotional or about something, it probably is because of them triggering back to this event and just the way I was raised coming out of it.

[00:32:13] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And also I never want anyone to feel alone. I have amassed this group of people around me who have all lost siblings and have found myself sitting with them and talking with them. And one of your former guests, Jackson was talking about how he found himself in a grief group with other people who had lost their grandmothers.

[00:32:34] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah,

[00:32:35] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And. And losing my grandmother was awful, but I was an adult and losing my grandfather as a child was awful. And I was a child, but nothing will ever match, losing a sibling. When you lose a grandparent who was old, they've had a beautiful life.

[00:32:51] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Well, you can like reconcile that, right? Even you losing as a child and even losing as an adult, I'm sure it's totally different experiences because I can relate to [00:33:00] that too. But you can reconcile it because it's our very young brains know that we're gonna lose our grandparents.

[00:33:07] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: We're gonna lose our great grandparents if we're lucky enough to know them. We know eventually too that we're gonna lose mom and dad. Right? If you lose them at a young age, that's a whole other ball game, right? But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the order of things. And so when you're an 11 year old and you're losing your three year old brother, that's not going to feel the same as grandma or grandpa.

[00:33:29] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: It's just not because you can't reconcile that in your brain the same way in your

[00:33:33] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: and the friends and these friends that I've met as adults, they've lost their siblings as adults. And it, you still can't, obviously. It was impossible for you to reconcile. How am I losing my brother right now? Like this is not, it's not natural. It's not the natural order of things. And so I, to sit with these friends, to sit in service to them, to sit and just say, I know I get it.

[00:33:59] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: This is [00:34:00] shitty and nobody else gets this. And we can go to all the grief groups we want and talk about losing parents and grandparents, but like nothing is going to compare to this situation. I think that's the good thing that's come out of it. I would say anxiety is the bad thing that I didn't recognize.

[00:34:19] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Until I had my daughter that I thought this depression that I had been walking around with for, since I was about 19, I thought it was just depression and I didn't realize how much of it was anxiety. Either causing depression or masquerading as depression, always thinking and not just in terms of people dying.

[00:34:40] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I didn't meet my husband until I was almost 30. I had been single essentially my whole life. And so thinking I was just going to die an old spinster thinking I was going to die always being in debt, thinking, just always thinking the worst

[00:34:53] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Well, we catastrophize. We catastrophize. Right, Jessica? Like, I so connect, I want, I'm [00:35:00] so glad you're circling back on this because I wanted to highlight this. I am a fellow anxiety sufferer, I should say. And I also experienced anxiety my entire life. My, my mother, from a very young age, I had anxiety.

[00:35:13] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And now I know that all came from the family trauma, very broken home, all of that. And it was very interesting because I thought I had it under control. Air quotes for those of you listening to the audio under control and then my brother is murdered and I'm like it, it came up like, it was like a fountain exploding inside of me, which those of you who suffer from anxiety like Jessica and I know, and it was like manifesting through my fingertips.

[00:35:39] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I wanted to crawl out of my skin again and I'm like, and I had struggled with such bad panic attacks and anxiety. And I see you nodding. I know, you know what I'm talking about. And this all came back and it was like, I need to be on medication again and the Xanax and the colonopin and all of that stuff again.

[00:35:54] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And I'm in a totally different place now, but, It's always in [00:36:00] me, and I've accepted that it's a part of me, and I now learn to move through life with that kind of anxious part of myself, but finding ways to find peace within myself, and peace, and like, what's gonna make me feel calm, what's gonna make me feel safe, and so I so connect with you on the anxiety, but I think what's so important that you've mentioned multiple times is something I get asked all the time from people, like, is it normal For me to feel like someone else is going to die.

[00:36:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Is it normal that now I feel like who's next or like there's, I worry. And I think you're doing such a beautiful job of sharing that. Yes, it's normal. It's normal. It's normal. If you've been through this experience and to

[00:36:40] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Very normal.

[00:36:41] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: even more at a young age, cause you were taught this at a young age, you had this experience at a young age.

[00:36:47] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So you're carrying it through. Your life. And so I think I just think it's going to be a real gift for those of you listening to the episode to know like you're not crazy for feeling this way because I thought I kept thinking all my plants were going to die. My [00:37:00] dogs were going to die. All my family was.

[00:37:01] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I was really being catastrophic, with every with my thinking I was 30. So I can't imagine 11. I just had to say that it's a lot.

[00:37:11] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: When I'm listening to your episodes, when you're talking about this anxiety you had on your couch and how your body was shaking, so everything reconnects for me as an adult. I've gone through my whole life now as this person who lost her brother, and this is just part of my story.

[00:37:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: It's part of my story. I have depression. It's inherited from my mom. This is our family story. We're pretty messed up, but like, this has just been my thing. Like, okay, I, this is part of my story and I'm just, I'm going along in, in life and then I became pregnant. My husband and I, of all, of many challenges I've had in my life, I got pregnant on the first try, and I will always thank God in the universe for giving me the ease of that.

[00:37:55] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: However. We found out we were pregnant the first week of lockdown [00:38:00] during the COVID pandemic. And so, it's not a fun pregnancy being pregnant during COVID. You imagine your pregnancy seeing your friends and family and your friends touching your belly. Or at least for me, that was always something I envisioned.

[00:38:13] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Some people don't like their bellies touched, you envision this baby shower with everybody. And, It's not, your partner can't be with you at the appointments and all these things, but I had a pretty healthy pregnancy. Very actually clinically, very boring until week 38 and we were set to induce at week 39 and at week 38 we contracted COVID and this was November of 2020.

[00:38:35] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: This was pre Your face right now, Maya, if this is free vaccines, this was in the height of everybody in the world is dying. Like if you get COVID you're dead, boom, done. The hospital we gave birth at, big fancy hospital in downtown Chicago was changing their policy every other day. Based on you can be with your baby.

[00:38:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: You can't be with your baby. You're going to be on the special COVID ward. You're not going to be, [00:39:00] your husband can't come with you. He can't. Well, my husband and I contracted COVID and I had given it to my parents. Because I had seen my dad and then my parents ended up with it. So at 38 weeks, we find out we all four of us have COVID.

[00:39:14] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I'm supposed to be giving birth at 39 weeks, supposed to induce. I'm having a large child. And so we have to push it off to 40 weeks. And in between week 38 and week 40, I have gone full manic. And I am in this episode for two weeks of what you were describing during season one. Maya, my body is shaking.

[00:39:33] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I cannot sleep. There is no medicine that will make me sleep. And also I'm 38 weeks pregnant. So there's only very few things I'm allowed to take to make me sleep, which is essentially Benadryl or Unisom. And every night at midnight or two in the morning, I would call my doctor's office. panicking, crying, begging for help, but nobody can help me.

[00:39:51] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I can't go into a hospital because I have COVID and no one will see me. And I'm convinced a hundred percent convinced that either myself, my husband, my parents, [00:40:00] or my baby are going to die to the point where I'm writing down our bank passwords for my husband on our way to the hospital at 40 weeks, because I'm convinced that I'm not going to be coming home from the hospital.

[00:40:12] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I'm convinced I'm going to die in labor. I'm going in for a scheduled C section because my doctor and I decide I'm not mentally fit for labor. I'm also having a very large child. So medically speaking, we're just going to have the C section and I'm a hundred percent convinced that I'm going to die or I'm going to lose my child during childbirth.

[00:40:30] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And when the doc, when the psych team comes in to intervene, because I'm really not, well, I have not slept or ate for two weeks, I'm pregnant. I'm clearly manic and this is not a place that you want to have a manic woman because, there's postpartum psychosis. There's all these things you're already at risk for as a pregnant woman in America in general, nevertheless, being predisposed to some of these things and the psych team comes in to intervene and they're, Asking me all these questions, do you see [00:41:00] people in the room?

[00:41:00] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Do you think you can fly? And I'm going, I'm not crazy. I'm just anxious and I can't sleep. And I explained to them, I said, I lost my brother when I was 11. I was raised in a family of just thinking that the worst possible thing can happen. And I'm convinced it's happening again right now with this baby that I just gave birth to, who was perfectly healthy, who to this day is perfectly healthy and wonderful.

[00:41:29] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: But that's when I realized this is bad. This anxiety has come back to rear its ugly head because I'm flash having flashbacks to losing my brother and having flashbacks to my mom going through these miscarriages and. So much of my life, I say, was spent looking through the eyes of my parents at their trauma and not really seeing the trauma through the eyes of an 11 year old because you grow up so quickly, especially when you lose a sibling [00:42:00] as a child.

[00:42:00] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: You grow up at the drop of a hat overnight and you stop thinking like a kid on a lot of things. Hence me always worrying about everything. But now after four years of being on Zoloft, Sertraline and Welbutrin and all the other drugs out there, I think I'm now recognizing what's in my control and what's not.

[00:42:23] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And, what I was, I'm seeing now what I was manifesting through all of these scary thoughts all these years. And, Now I'm in a much better place where I can see that I can do better for myself and for my daughter. And right now the sole focus of my life as a parent is to make sure I break this sort of intergenerational trauma and to make sure that my daughter doesn't have to inherit any of my problems.

[00:42:50] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I'll never blame my mom for having problems, not in a million years. But it was hard not to absorb them as a child and [00:43:00] even well into adulthood, not to absorb her feelings and her problems. And I want to make sure that my daughter doesn't have to do the same for me.

[00:43:09] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. I think that's beautiful. Jessica, thank you for sharing that with us because I, that's so intense. And COVID was such an intense time as we all know. And then to have something like that happen to you. It's so interesting how you describe it because it's something I personally experienced in a lot of other folks that listen to the show or have been on the show have experienced when something significant happens, like you have a child.

[00:43:33] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Or you get married or you lose another sibling or a loved one or something, all of these emotions, all of these feelings, all of flashbacks, all what you felt back then, it all comes back and it becomes very real and you're confronted with it for lack of a better way of saying that. And it can be very difficult because you're going through something very intense.

[00:43:54] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And then you're also dealing with what has transpired in the past, right? With here, we [00:44:00] talk about sibling loss, of course. And so you having all of these feelings and all of that, all those emotions as you're about to give birth doesn't surprise me, to be honest, it really doesn't surprise me, but I think it's really.

[00:44:12] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. Beautiful that you have made it a personal mission that you're like this, I'm not going to give this to my child to carry because that's something that I've said in my life too. I'm like, if I am lucky enough to have children, I am not going to, and I think that's, it's easy for us to say that wonderful.

[00:44:32] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: But I think that is, What I think you're a testament to is that you're actively aware of it. You're saying it and you're taking steps towards it. And I really thank you for sharing that you take medication because I think there's a whole stigma around that. And there was, even when I was on medication for many years for my anxiety and then went back on it after my brother died.

[00:44:55] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: There was, that was not even eight, nine years ago. There was a stigma even then people were [00:45:00] like, I felt like I couldn't really be honest about the fact that I was taking antidepressant and I needed anxiety medication as needed for those panic attacks and things like that. And by the time I put this show out, I was like, no, I'm going to share it all.

[00:45:13] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Like this is what worked. This is what didn't work. I don't care because I think You know the more we talk about It's okay. It's okay to ask for help. It's okay to need medication. It's okay if it makes you feel like yourself and the best version of yourself.

[00:45:28] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: When the Zoloft kicked in for me, I remember it. It was a moment. It wasn't like over days. It was all of a sudden, like, I had felt like my whole body was coursing with adrenaline. That minute right before you go to like run a race and you have all that adrenaline in your body, you know the feeling if you have panic attacks,

[00:45:44] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Oh, yeah

[00:45:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: your whole body's coursing with it to the point where you're shaking and you can't get rid of it. And it felt like somebody pulled a plug and all of it drained out and it was like, that was the moment. And then over the course of the last four years, I've been able to [00:46:00] recognize when I have these ruminating thoughts of this, of the catastrophizing of the worst case scenario. And I'm able to say, okay, it could happen.

[00:46:11] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Sure. My husband could get hit by a bus on his way out the door, but it's not likely. And so that's where these medications have come to play such a large role in my life of,

[00:46:23] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: get

[00:46:23] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Being able to say,

[00:46:24] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: get it.

[00:46:25] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: you don't have to catastrophize. You can just say, yeah, yep. Anything could happen. It's not likely. Let's maybe put that to the side and come back to that later.

[00:46:33] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And like, go on with our day because you don't have to go down that rabbit hole every single time you have a scary thought. And I just didn't realize that the whole world didn't think like that. I just thought the whole world thought like my mom and me of. If you get sick, you have to go to the hospital and then you die.

[00:46:52] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Okay. Like, no, that's not actually how it works. And

[00:46:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I so relate to this, Jessica. I so really like you are [00:47:00] preaching to all our anxiety peeps out there. I'm sure are like nodding and going, yes, Jessica. Yes. Because that's, you put it so perfectly. I used to really, think, okay, yes, if this happens and then you go into these like rabbit holes, like, and you can't pull yourself out.

[00:47:16] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And I think it's really wonderful that you found the right medication for you and the right, so that you're not, you don't go down there anymore. You don't go down that hole you go, you know what it could happen, but you know what it hasn't happened And so we're gonna live today for today And I think what's so interesting to me about anxiety and this is a moment that clicked for me, too I remember when I was on finally the right antidepressant as well for me.

[00:47:39] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: It happened to be wellbutrin I remember I was on I don't think I talk about a lot of this on the show, but I was on lexapro at first That's what they put me on and I remember feeling so numb and I was like, you know I actually don't mind this. I was like, I'm okay with being numb right now. Cause I was in so much shock.

[00:47:55] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So it was okay with that. And then when I was like, I think I'm ready to start feeling, I [00:48:00] think it was about six months to a year into my grief during, I was like, I want to feel a little bit, but I'm not, I know I need something cause this is so intense. And that's when we, changed around a few things and we tried wellbutrin and I really need energy because I didn't want to get out of bed.

[00:48:13] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So wellbutrin was great for me with that. And I stayed on it for many years. I've only been off it for, I think, two and a half, three years. And. But that I needed it. I needed it for about five years and that was okay. And if I ever need it again, that's okay too. And I think there's a lot of importance around that.

[00:48:28] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: But what's interesting with anxiety people, and I want you to tell me if this resonates with you or if you've heard this before, but this was a light bulb moment for me in anxiety. One of the therapists that I had gone to told me that, we don't want to just say anxiety is this or depression is this, but this is a good way to think about this.

[00:48:44] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And I may have talked about this before on the show because I really love this, but people who are in, can stay in the present moment, like, typically, Are overall, okay, right? We get sad. We get anxious. We get those are emotions. We experience as humans. People who [00:49:00] tend to be stuck or think a lot of the past tend to get really into depression.

[00:49:05] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I was like, that makes sense. And then he was telling me that folks that really think about the future or think about things that could happen. Are always thinking of the future and I'm like, yeah, that's me. That's me. What's that? He's like that's anxiety because you're constantly thinking in your body and your mind and everything is overworking all the time and so Whatever you need to do to bring yourself back to the present moment

[00:49:29] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: right. Regardless if it's from the past or from the present or from the future is bringing it back to the present. And, 

[00:49:36] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: so that resonates with you

[00:49:37] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: oh my gosh, absolutely. Cause I think I've done both, you can ruminate about all the terrible things that happened in your life beforehand and the person you were beforehand.

[00:49:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And the things that, for the people who have hurt you in the past. And you can also think about all the bad things that could happen in the future. And either way, coming back to that present moment, which is only something I've really tried to focus on the last [00:50:00] six months and having a deeper spiritual meditation practice is being mindful, coming back to this current moment.

[00:50:07] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Even just when I'm with my daughter, not thinking about my to do list and all these other things that are happening, just thinking about this present moment that we're in, because it's a gift and like, we're not guaranteed that The next moment or the next day, and certainly there's use in looking back at our past, but there's no use in ruminating on it.

[00:50:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Trauma is trauma, and that needs to be treated, medically and, with a therapist and everything. And I'm not going to say don't have trauma from the past, but I totally agree that's looking at the types of people in my life who have these types of diagnoses. I 100 percent agree with that.

[00:50:45] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: We could do a whole separate episode

[00:50:46] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: We could do a whole separate episode on that. I know to come guys, but I think that was a big one for me because I'm such an analytical person, Jessica. So like, I really needed, like, I need to understand things or like have [00:51:00] metaphors for things. And so even just having that a little simplified helped me.

[00:51:04] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And it helps me because I have a sister that has anxiety too. And so when I shared that with her, she was like, Oh my God, I'm always thinking about the future. I'm always stuck in the future. And then if I think about the past, what you said, if you think about the past, I think about how I could change it, things like that.

[00:51:19] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And what we need to understand as anxiety people and even depression any intense emotion or feeling right. Or anything that we struggle with is that there's nothing we can do about the past and there's nothing we can do With the future in some ways, right? We can do everything we want to do, but it's in the present moment that things really happen.

[00:51:38] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And I think you said this really well too, that, it's okay. And sometimes really important to look at the past, understand it, heal from it and work through it, but we can't live there and we can't live in the future either. We have to live in the present moment. And I think that's a really great message for

[00:51:53] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: We have to control what we can control right now. So for instance, like with my daughter and swimming, [00:52:00] obviously we've had her in swim lessons as soon as it was appropriate to really put her in

[00:52:04] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Totally get it. Yep.

[00:52:06] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And, but at the same time, like, okay, we put her in some lessons. We can control that.

[00:52:12] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: We have a system in place. So that we always, we have a verbal confirmation of who's watching her in the water. My sister has a pool in her backyard. She lives out West in a very hot city. So she needs a pool in her backyard. And so there's a lot of controls that we have as a family to make sure, certain locks on the doors and cameras and different things that we have to enhance safety.

[00:52:34] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And we're only just going to control what we can control. And that was something I had to learn the first time we took my daughter out to go see my sister was talking to my therapist about how scared I was with this pool in the backyard. And she said, well, have you talked to your sister? And I'm like, well, I know she's I know she's just as cautious as I am because she's about the only person in the world who's just as hyper aware of water safety as I am.

[00:52:59] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: She's like, [00:53:00] yeah, but have you talked to her about it? And have you talked to her about all the different controls you can put in place? And. So now I don't being around water and bringing her to the pool doesn't trigger me as much because I know I'm controlling everything I can control and I'm not worrying about what happens if I turn my head because I'm not going to turn my head or if I do, I've already confirmed with my husband that he's watching her while I go to the bathroom or look at my phone and so I think there's a very we can worry about these things all day long, and it's not that I don't worry about her because I worry to Helen back every day about her, but I try to control what I can control and be as safe and smart of a parent as I can without, again, to the detriment of my daughter to make her feel.

[00:53:49] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I don't want her to feel anxious. I don't want her to feel scared around water. She shouldn't. She should be aware she should have we always say multiple times a day when we're around water What's [00:54:00] the number one rule of swimming only swimming with mommy and daddy or only swimming with a grown up?

[00:54:05] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: that's not alone gonna save her by saying that but we drill these things and we can control them and It's about all we can do in the present moment Without causing ourselves more pain, right?

[00:54:18] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I agree with you. And I think what's really interesting with what you just shared to Jessica is that you said, you know She doesn't need to be afraid of water What you're saying is that's your fear that comes from your anxiety your feel from your trauma and it's Beautifully wrapping up into what you said earlier about how you don't want to put Your own traumas fears and things that happen into your daughter and look at swimming is just one example I'm sure of many ways so I wanted to call that out for you because it's there It's a living breathing thing that's happening in your relationship And I think that's wonderful because that is from your past right she may never be exposed to something like that.

[00:54:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: We hope she's not Right. And so I think it, it [00:55:00] is a real big thing because it's something that comes up a whole lot to with folks in, in our groups and listen to the show is, how do I not transfer this onto my children? And how do I not but how do I also talk about this?

[00:55:12] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: My sibling who's passed with them and how do I and so this is a great episode for that as well, Jessica and how you're just your swimming example alone really shows like, okay, how you're doing this and how you're creating it's positive, but you're also controlling what you can in the moment and I think that's all we can do after a trauma.

[00:55:33] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Yeah. And I, we all have to take ownership of our own shit. And we all have it for a reason, we all went through about just about the worst thing you could ever go through. But at the same time we have to take ownership of that of our reaction to it, and that might sound harsh, but I think it's, if we want to do better for ourselves and for the people around us really is.

[00:55:58] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And so that's when [00:56:00] I have to kick myself in the butt if I'm like getting too anxious around water going, I don't want my child to see this. And not everyone has children that maybe they think about in this way. But you may want to do better with your own thing for your husband or for your dog or for your friends that you're around.

[00:56:18] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: They will always be there to love and support you no matter what. everyone around me knows I will always be fearful of water. I will always have that fear and I won't be mad at myself for having that fear because it's a real fear. And I think everyone should have a healthy dose of fear around around water, around other, like let's all have a healthy conscious awareness of the dangers that are out there, but let's not allow them to run our lives.

[00:56:44] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: After you've been able to process it, I wouldn't expect somebody who just lost. a child or a sibling to drowning last week or last month or last year to feel the same way I do. I've had 27 years to think about this and to be around pools with children and [00:57:00] to, but I still can't go to a pool anywhere.

[00:57:03] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And if I see a kid running around and I don't see a grown up right next to them, I'm hawk's eye on that child and their parents always around. I always end up seeing the parent. But I'm hawk's eye on that because I can't take my eyes off of it. And I feel an innate responsibility to that family, to that child.

[00:57:21] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And I think it's good for all of us to feel that way, right. To take responsibility for each other and our own feelings. And yeah, but again, I've had 27 years to think about this.

[00:57:29] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: right. Absolutely. But that's why it's so important that, folks like you, Jessica, come on the show and share because you have had 27 years, right? And that's really one of the big goals for the show is to give hope to those who have just gone through this, or if they're feeling stuck in the journey.

[00:57:45] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And I think it's quite inspirational for people like you coming on the show to our audience and sharing, like, I've lived it 27 years. It's not easy, but here I am and I'm a mom and I'm married and I have this beautiful life and but it's [00:58:00] still with me and here's how I cope with it. So I really appreciate you sharing all of this with us.

[00:58:04] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Jessica, I want to ask you one more question and then we'll talk about where people can reach out If this story, which I'm sure it did resonated with them what, cause there is the component of your story where you lost your brother so young. So I get asked questions about this all the time and we've talked about it a couple of times on the show, but you're right.

[00:58:22] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: The majority of the folks that come on our show lost as an adult. We've had some younger stories on, and there's always a different perspective. So I'm curious from your perspective and your advice. What advice would you give to siblings out there that have lost a sibling young, whether it's their mom or dad listening to this episode that wants to help them, because that happens with our show, which is a beautiful thing.

[00:58:45] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Or if it's someone who maybe is, in their 20s now, or is now just starting to process, because I've noticed that's a thing too, when you lose as a child, you sometimes go through different moments in your life where you're processing pieces of it. So I'd be [00:59:00] curious what piece of advice maybe that we didn't cover that you would give those folks that lost as a young child.

[00:59:05] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: I think, thank you, this is a really beautiful question because I think it gets to the point of what I've been thinking about a lot lately as I reprocess this through different ways. The life that we lost, the life that we lost with Aaron was very, short lived. It was three years.

[00:59:22] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: And so I'm not, I didn't, of course I am mourning this person who was gone. And in this, It's really just terrible, tragic accident that can be very triggering to think about how painful a drowning death would be and how much fear this child must have felt and thought at the time. But I think I, I don't always mourn the loss of the person so much.

[00:59:42] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Like, you, with your brother, you had a relationship and there was a whole person there with memories and my memories of my brother, just pictures. And stories that my parents have told us over the years over and over, but there isn't a person in a relationship to mourn. There is a life that never [01:00:00] was for him, but more importantly, it might sound really shitty to say it's a life that never was for me and my sister and our family, and I think there, I have felt bitterness and resentment about that growing up of just not being able to have a normal family, not having a normal family, I missed out on.

[01:00:20] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So many years of different vacations, people would go on to Arizona because I didn't visit Arizona until last year. Actually, it was the first time we went. I finally said enough is enough. I'm going to go back. We didn't go to Scottsdale, but we went nearby and we saw friends and everything was fine because I was reminded that just because something bad happened in Arizona once doesn't mean it's going to happen again.

[01:00:42] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: But to go back, I think there's a lot of things I missed out on growing up. And a life that I didn't get to have growing up that I mourn. I do mourn that. And I think it's okay to always mourn that loss. But now I'm trying to create the life that I didn't get to have. And so I think Oh, I don't know.

[01:00:59] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Not silver [01:01:00] lining, not trying to take something that was really terrible and then use it as my catalyst and my motivation to create this life that I want to have now. And again, it will never, ever fault my parents because they did give us a beautiful life. I wanted for nothing, in fact, except for my parents.

[01:01:18] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Normality and a family that was cohesive and a family that didn't have to experience this. But I think it's okay to mourn that loss and you'll always, you'll always feel this feeling of like, our family didn't get to have this, my sibling didn't get to have this, but what can you do now to give that back to yourself, back to your family, back to your sibling?

[01:01:39] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So what can you do to honor their life? And for me, it's every day. of just trying to be the best mom I can be and raise a child that I know my brother is proud of and to have a family That has dynamics that I wish had been around for [01:02:00] me.

[01:02:00] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I love it. I love it. I absolutely agree with you. And I think that's wonderful advice. And I think, yeah, just, I so relate to this because I just feel like it took me several years, but when I turned that kind of corner and I was like, okay. I want to live in honor of my brother. It was such a moment.

[01:02:20] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So I so connect with everything you're saying. I so get it. Oh my God. Okay. Jessica, tell us where people can connect with you. If they've lost a sibling a similar way, or if they're just curious about your story and want to connect with you, cause there's so much in this episode that I think so many of you guys are going to connect with where are you comfortable with them reaching out to you?

[01:02:37] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Yeah, I am an open book. I am happy to share as much as people want to share with me and I'm happy to listen as much as they need to listen. Unfortunately I'm a 38 year old grandma, so I don't have TikTok or Instagram for the sake of my mental health. But I do have a Gmail account and I would be happy for people to reach out to me.

[01:02:56] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: So my email. is Jessica, J [01:03:00] E S I C A dot R, like rabbit, dot K U E C K. That's kangaroo, umbrella, elephant, cat, kangaroo, at gmail. com. I know that's a mouthful, but people are more than welcome to reach out to me. I truly appreciate it. I just want to help bring some healing into the world and I'm happy to be a vessel for people.

[01:03:27] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Awesome. And we'll put it in the show notes too. So if you guys just read below, you can click on that and contact Jessica if the story resonates with you, which I'm sure it will so much in here. Jessica, and also I want to tease this a little bit. You're thinking about writing a memoir, you're in the early stages of this, so maybe we'll have you back after you write your memoir, right?

[01:03:48] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Fingers crossed. My therapist made a suggestion off the cuff a few months ago. And I said, actually it is something I've always considered. So it is in the very early stages, but if [01:04:00] there's anyone out there who has some expertise in this, please connect with me.

[01:04:04] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, that's why I wanted to mention it. So yeah, definitely reach out to Jessica We've had several amazing authors on the show as you know Who have written in all different types of styles we'd have we've had everything from memoir to non fiction to fiction and so it's been really incredible to watch how different people have taken their sibling loss journey and Created their own art around it, which I think is really cool.

[01:04:23] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So Well, we'll have you back after that, Jessica. So thank you so much for being here. It's been wonderful.

[01:04:30] 2025-02-21--t07-15-56pm--guest709627--jessicakueck: Thank you, Maya. This was such a blessing. What you're doing for our, all of us, our community, our, the world's worst club that no one wants to be in. We thank you. So thanks. Thanks again for having me. 

[01:04:40] Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings Podcast so that [01:05:00] more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

[01:05:06] And don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms. We're on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Surviving Siblings Podcast. All links can be found in the show notes, so be sure to check those out too. Thank you again for the support. Until the next episode, keep on surviving my surviving siblings.