Ginger’s Loss Of Her Brother To Seizure Complications

[00:00:09] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Surviving Siblings podcast. Today I have Ginger on the show. Ginger, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:19] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Thank you very much. Okay,
[00:00:21] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So today Ginger is going to share about her brother, Mike, whom she lost back in 2019. So Ginger, thank you again for coming on the show and being so open and sharing your story.
[00:00:34] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Tell us a little bit about. You and Mike, your relationship, kind of give us some insight into your childhood and growing up together and what, what that family dynamic was like.
[00:00:46] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: so I was nine years older than Mike. So I was my dad's only child and then my mom and my stepfather had my brother when [00:01:00] I was nine. Um, so I went back and forth between those two households. Um, I wanted a little brother. If my mom was sitting here, she would tell you from the time I could talk, you know, um, So when he was born, um, I immediately at nine years old knew I wanted to be a mom.
[00:01:21] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, and so I had a lot of maternal instincts towards him immediately, even as a little girl. My mom was kind of, um, she was ill when he was born and just because I was so much older, I helped take care of him, helped raise him. Um, and so we were just always extremely close. I would babysit him when I was a teenager.
[00:01:47] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: He came with me to games and school functions and we're a very musical family. So I was in chorus. He came to all of those things. We've just [00:02:00] always been extremely close with our parents and, um, to each other, um, from the time he was able to walk and talk, he was singing and dancing. So we got to like guide him and watch him grow into what he eventually became and it was very rare for me to see siblings how we were. And maybe it was because of the age difference. There was also, um, a race. My stepfather is black. My mom is white. So, um, looking at my brother, you would not know that. I am lighter than him. He's like this pale, freckled face, red headed, so our family dynamic is very multicultural and it was just amazing.
[00:02:43] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: It was amazing to grow up in that family.
[00:02:46] Ginger Ep- Maya view: I think it just like warms my heart to listen to you talk about that experience because we almost have a theme this season, Ginger, because there's quite a few of us on here that have like age gap relationships with our um, [00:03:00] siblings. It's very interesting how every season there's kind of a different vibe and theme.
[00:03:04] Ginger Ep- Maya view: That seems to be one of the themes this season. So
[00:03:06] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: it just falls into place. Yeah.
[00:03:08] Ginger Ep- Maya view: falls into place. It's very interesting. But I connect with that. I'm sure a lot of you listening who have an experience like Ginger. Connect with that. It's not my brother. My brother and I are three years apart, but My sister, I have a sister 10 years younger than me, and we have a very special relationship and I connect with what you're saying because it was like becoming a mother at 10, we're 10 years apart.
[00:03:31] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So, um, same thing. Like I brought her to work. I remember giving her her first little gigs. I'd be like, Hey, will you come, you know, sweep the store for me? Cause I've always worked in retail before I owned my own business. And so I was like, sweep the store. And then I'd take her to like Francesca's or a little shop and like, get her a new dress.
[00:03:47] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So. I loved that. My maternal instincts too just came out. So I just, you described that better than I ever could because I think it paints a really strong image and [00:04:00] emotion for people because not everybody feels that way when they get a sibling, but I, I definitely felt that bond as well. So I really understand and have some good insight into your relationship already with Mike, because that's not just a sibling.
[00:04:15] Ginger Ep- Maya view: You're also a maternal figure. You're like mom number two, right? Another parent. And you feel this sense of responsibility at a very young age. It really changes you.
[00:04:24] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Absolutely. 100 percent changed me from so young. And it just, it kind of shaped my life because I was an athlete. Mike was a singer. I was an athlete. I could have gone to college, but I just wanted to be a mom. I wanted to get to a place where I could help support a family and raise kids.
[00:04:46] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And it was because of him.
[00:04:47] Ginger Ep- Maya view: he inspired all of that. Oh, it's so beautiful. I love that. So tell us, so I, again, I connect with you too. Mike, the musician, my brother was a total musician too. We were chatting a little bit before the [00:05:00] episode started, so I totally get that. Tell us a little bit about Mike and his musical talent. What was his thing?
[00:05:06] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Was he a singer? Like, tell us what he was in, or was he like a jack of all trades? I'd love to learn more about that.
[00:05:11] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Okay. So, um, started out with Michael Jackson, right? Um, when he was little and with the microphone and the dancing for the family at the parties and all of that, um, he started. We had this, this big bird, um, this yellow fluffy life, like big bird that you put a cassette in and the, his mouth moved and sang songs.
[00:05:34] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: He started singing with that thing when he was like, two. And we were like, wait, we're, we're onto something here. Um, he's remembering the words and he's like carrying a tune and he's a baby. Um, and then progressed with Michael Jackson and then all of this, all of the music that I was into growing up. You know, the Aerosmith and the, even the boy bands, New Kids on the Block, but like Whitney Houston [00:06:00] and all of the, that stuff, new edition and all of that.
[00:06:04] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: We, we just loved and he, he loved what I loved and he would just put on shows. And then when he got into high school, he was in all the choruses and, you know, he was part of a quartet and he just, he just fell in love with the music. all types of music. He did quartets and then he started to get into opera.
[00:06:31] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, he sang in some operas in Chicago, um, mostly self taught. And then he, through school, through his high school teachers, he, he got into like, um, a company and had some really good mentors for opera. And then he fell in love with the blues. And once he fell in love with the blues, it, that was it. He was,
[00:06:54] Ginger Ep- Maya view: That was his thing.
[00:06:55] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: that was his thing.
[00:06:56] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: He was done. He never had a license. [00:07:00] So he would walk to the library and study and read books and listen to tapes and watch videos, and it was just his passion. That's all. He would rather do that than he wasn't a partier. He wasn't a, you know, anything like that. That's it. He was studying music. He was training himself.
[00:07:22] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, and then he was, got onto a couple of bands. And, um, once he met his, um, blues mentor, he, he, um, joined that band and ended up being their lead vocal. Um, and for years they've traveled. I mean, he's big in Norway. He's like in Europe, like, and any of the blues, blues community knows. His name.
[00:07:50] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Knows Mike. Yeah.
[00:07:52] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: At his passing, by the time he had passed, he had already won a blues, um, a traditional blues [00:08:00] album of the year award at the, uh, It's like the Grammys, but it's just for blues and Memphis.
[00:08:08] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And, um, so he had won that the year before and then, um, he passed away and he had already, they had already been nominated for like four awards at the blues awards in 2019, which we then had to go to Memphis to accept on his behalf because he ended up cleaning house that night. So, yeah, he was just a very hilarious,
[00:08:31] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: determined, um, passionate kid.
[00:08:35] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah.
[00:08:35] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yeah. Loved family. Family most important. Um, both of us, like, we, we would much rather be on a Saturday night at our aunt or grandma's house or at our house with our cousins than out with, you know, friends or doing whatever they were doing. It's just, we just had a close family.
[00:08:57] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And that's, and that's beautiful. And it's really a testament to what you talked about [00:09:00] just a few minutes ago too, about how you felt when he came into this world and there was just a connection. And when you're, when you're that connected to someone, like I, again, I relate to you because I, if my brother wanted to hang out and he's like my younger brother, right?
[00:09:14] Ginger Ep- Maya view: But if he wanted to hang out, like. didn't need to hang out with anybody else. Like we just had this deep connection. So I definitely understand that and appreciate that. And I think it's such a, it's such a gift, even though we've lost our brothers. I think. I look back now and I'm able to just appreciate that I had so much love and we had so much love for each other.
[00:09:32] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It doesn't mean everything was always perfect. There's a lot of drama and things that happen, right? Right, right.
[00:09:37] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: absolutely.
[00:09:38] Ginger Ep- Maya view: But I'm grateful to have experienced that and I'm sure you feel the same way.
[00:09:41] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Absolutely. I feel it. 100%.
[00:09:45] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Tell us, so you mentioned just briefly, and we talked about this before, of course, we jumped into the episode, um, you mentioned he never had a license.
[00:09:53] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Now the reason he never drove or had a license is because your brother Mike had epilepsy. So this is the [00:10:00] first time we're really diving into this on, on the show. And it's such a passion of mine to share about sibling loss, but also to share different things that our siblings struggled with or unfortunately how they pass different ways, right?
[00:10:13] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It's so important to bring awareness. I mean, gosh, we're going to be telling stories for a long time because there are so many different ways that we lose our siblings. So explain to us a little bit about Mike's journey with that, if you don't mind ginger, because I think, um, Again, this is huge and really important to bring awareness to it, um, and of course, we're going to talk about how he passed too, but he had this his, his whole life.
[00:10:35] Ginger Ep- Maya view: This was something he struggled with,
[00:10:38] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: yeah, I remember, um, being, I was a teenager, and I think he had started going to preschool. Like, kinder care type of, uh, place. They noticed some behavior. And I think one time I remember him, he must've had a seizure at school, but [00:11:00] the, they said he passed out or something. He ended up in the hospital.
[00:11:05] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I remember him going in for testing and all of this stuff. I was young and also living like. half and half between my parents. Um, so I don't remember all the actual details, but it started like very young, five, six years old when they started noticing the behavior at school and the testing started.
[00:11:24] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I don't know exactly his age. I would have to ask my mom when he was diagnosed, but when he got a little older into his, um, like young adolescent years, like maybe 12, 13. He started having seizures like regularly at home. So my, like me and I had had two little boys at this time, but I was living back at home and we, uh, my boys and I were going out to wash my car in the yard and Mike was going to come [00:12:00] out and help.
[00:12:01] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And so we were out there and we were kind of waiting and he had said he was going to jump in the shower. Well, he wasn't coming out. And. I went in the house to check on him and the water was running and I knocked and he didn't answer. And so I kind of got my mom and you know, I'm like, I didn't want to bust in on my teenage brother in the bathroom.
[00:12:20] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: So, um, my mom came and he didn't answer. And so we opened the door and you know, that was, that was my first, the first time I really saw and had to be involved in him having a seizure. His young teenage years is when it started to be more normal and more frequent. Sometimes it would happen multiple times in a day.
[00:12:49] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Sometimes he would, you have, you have to go a year without having a seizure in order to get your license. Sometimes he would get to nine, 10 months and then, but [00:13:00] it always happened. He always ended up having one. So yeah, he never had his license. Um, yeah, and they, they've always just, medication is, is how they tried to control it.
[00:13:13] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: As my brother grew and stuff like that, the, he would have seizures and then they would have to fluctuate the meds and all that stuff. Um, because he did end up being a pretty big guy and, um, as far as height, muscular, you know, so they were kind of constantly, he was very big into working out and kind of a gym rat.
[00:13:33] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: So I, I feel like they had to. They had to mess with his meds a lot, and if he happened to miss it sometimes, that's a lot of times when, when the seizures would happen.
[00:13:44] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Right. Wow. Yeah. I mean, such an active guy. He's in the gym. He's singing. He's traveling around. Like, wow. And you know, there's, you know, a lot of folks that struggle with something like epilepsy or, you know, different, different types of things [00:14:00] like this. Right. You know, we have and it's for life and we have to use medication and, and just monitor it.
[00:14:05] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Like, you know, some people live a much more cautious life. So I think that's really cool that he just did not let that hold him back. And he was like, you know what? Nope. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to do my music. I'm going to travel. I'm going to follow my, I think that's a real testament to who he, he is and was right.
[00:14:22] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Absolutely. 100%. 
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[00:14:38] If you've lost a sibling, trust me, I know exactly how you feel. I'm Maya. I'm the host of the surviving siblings podcast, but I'm also the founder of the Surviving siblings support. I know that going through this experience is extremely difficult, whether you've lost a brother like me, a sister, or perhaps more than one sibling.
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[00:15:55] You can click below to join us today and also check out some additional [00:16:00] VIP features that we offer. I hope to see you in the group and until then, keep on surviving my surviving siblings. yeah, I mean I totally get having to like adjust the medication and and it's so tough You know and and you described that moment like of you know He's not coming outside like there are these moments and I find especially in the sibling stories that we share when it's a sibling that has Something that they've had for life, right?
[00:16:25] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And there's these moments where When you come on the show, people will be like, I will never forget this moment. You will never forget that moment for the rest of your life where you were like, wow, he's really struck. Like we're going into the bathroom and he's really struggling with this. Like, these are the things that are just imprinted on you.
[00:16:40] Ginger Ep- Maya view: You know, let me ask you this though, Ginger, as he was going through life with epilepsy, did you ever think this would be like, Did you have some fear that this would be detrimental to like his actual life? Or did you just think, you know, 'cause I think, I think I would probably be like, okay, he's on the right [00:17:00] meds, he's good.
[00:17:00] Ginger Ep- Maya view: You know, but I'm sure that fluctuated. I'm curious how, how that was for you and how you felt being so close and like a mother figure to him.
[00:17:08] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I'm so glad you asked that, because that's how I felt. What you just said. I fe I never thought this would take his life. If you ask my mom, it was her biggest fear. Correct. Correct.
[00:17:22] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Interesting. You, you had different kind of perspectives and kind of feelings.
[00:17:27] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: So she always, she said, I always knew in the back of my mind that this can take him. And I looked at her and I was like, what? Like, I just, I didn't have that connection with it. Um, it was just like, and he always had grandma seizures, which is like the, like the worst kind, but he just, it was like, okay.[00:18:00] 
[00:18:00] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: It happened and he, he never wanted anyone to know when it happened. Um, he was very quiet about it. Um, and so I'm sure there are a lot that I didn't even know, especially, you know, I was older when I moved out and all of that had my kids and my husband. And then we moved to Florida. Um, Gosh, I don't know how old he was when I moved to Florida, but we moved to Florida and that's when his blues career really started to pick up, but he was also still struggling with that.
[00:18:39] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And I know that there's times where he told my mom not to say anything type of thing. So I know my mom knows all, all of it. You know, she was there for all of it. She's the one that had to get on him about his medicine, which, you know, he would. Not so much in the later years, but would [00:19:00] get on his nerves.
[00:19:01] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Like, yes, mom, you know, I'm taking my medicine. I'm taking my medicine. But that one time that she doesn't ask you and you don't take it, you know, so that, that was her. And so she always had that fear of what's going to happen if he doesn't take his medicine.
[00:19:15] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah.
[00:19:15] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Where I just got the phone calls after it already happened and that he's resting and he's going to be okay.
[00:19:24] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And aside from the ones that I physically saw myself. Which weren't many, but there were a few. He had one at my house also one time. But she, she was there for it all. So it was an actual fear for her as for me. It was just like something he's gonna have to recover from, but he's gonna recover.
[00:19:46] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Right. It's, it's a, a thing in his life. And this is what, you know, we all have heavy things to carry and it all looks different for different people. And this is just his thing. And that was his thing. That was kind of your mindset, it sounds like. Yeah.
[00:19:57] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yes.
[00:19:59] Ginger Ep- Maya view: be, [00:20:00] right? And I also understand your mom's point.
[00:20:02] Ginger Ep- Maya view: perspective too, because she's being, it's like you both were carrying parent roles and like you were kind of the parent that was like, Oh, but he's okay now. It's okay. He's okay. We're, you know, we had a scare and he's going to take his medicine. And, but then she was kind of being the parent that was like, take your medicine, take your medicine.
[00:20:18] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And she was seeing stuff. You were seeing different perspectives. It doesn't mean one is right or wrong. It's just different perspectives in the time. And I think that's, I'm so glad I asked you that question. It's, it's something I'm. It's something I'm always curious about, especially when we have siblings that have something diagnosed quite young or at birth, right?
[00:20:35] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And what was that, what was that journey like and what was that fear like, or were you fearing that, right? There's all these complexities that happen, but what I'm hearing too, Ginger, in your story is that because you had that mindset, and I want to get into, um, how, of course, how we lost Mike, but It sounds like this was quite shocking for you then, because of your mindset, [00:21:00] right?
[00:21:00] Ginger Ep- Maya view: When this happened?
[00:21:01] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Oh, it, it was shocking to everyone.
[00:21:04] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Right.
[00:21:05] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Totally unexpected. Totally. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It was it was absolutely shocking and it ripped. Yeah, it it ripped us apart for sure
[00:21:18] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So let's talk about that. He was, this was five years ago. He was 32, well into his, I mean, he was rocking and rolling, literally, in his blues career, right?
[00:21:29] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: he actually he was actually 33. I'm just thinking now and yeah his his birthday He turned 34 that year. So yeah, he was 33 Rocking and rolling like you said. Like I said was traveling the world. He was being nominated for things. He was Um being asked I'm considered for TV shows. Uh, there was a huge snowstorm in Chicago, in Illinois, where we're from and where he lived, and he had a gig in the city [00:22:00] and because he did not have his license, he took the train a lot. Um, so he took the train. He also wasn't feeling well. He thought maybe he maybe was getting some food poisoning or something like that so his Girlfriend had taken him to the train station and he was like, I'll be fine, you know and goes to the city does his gig and Then the snowstorm hits shuts down public transportation for the night So he has to stay with a bandmate in the city So then that bandmate puts him on the train the next morning, and he goes home, and, I believe he had his first seizure when he got home.
[00:22:48] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Went to sleep after that, um, woke up a little later, had another seizure. Um, I believe that [00:23:00] he got up after that one. and had told his girlfriend that he was going to take a shower. Um, and she was like, you know, I'm right here, keep the door open type of thing or whatever. And he was like, I'll be okay.
[00:23:16] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, and he went to get in the shower and she walked out to sit in the front room with their kids. And she, a few minutes later, heard a loud noise and he had had a seizure in the shower. And, um, the way that he apparently fell and was kind of laying, she could not get all the way in. And because he was soaking wet from the shower, she, and like I said, he was a big guy.
[00:23:51] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, she couldn't, like, get, she couldn't get to him, basically. Um, and so, the paramedics were there, um, [00:24:00] I believe they worked on him for quite some time and they just couldn't bring him back.
[00:24:09] Ginger Ep- Maya view: wow,
[00:24:10] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: So yeah, he passed away right there in their brand new apartment that they had been in for, I don't even know if it was two weeks at that point maybe, 
[00:24:18] Ginger Ep- Maya view: not quite the housewarming they expected Wow
[00:24:22] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: back. Correct.
[00:24:24] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Wow. So did she call you to let you what was that like for you? Cuz we all as you know on the show and you guys who listen we all have that moment We have that call right which did she call you how what happened next because this is that sounds like So fast and I mean how oh how like disarming for her right and how difficult and and they have children, too
[00:24:47] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yeah. And yes, they have, um, they have a little girl, Holland, and baby Michael. And he was a week away from turning one years old. [00:25:00] And so my mom called me, um, I remember sitting on the couch watching, just got done watching a movie with my husband and, um, just hanging out, having a fun night. My mom calls, we see it's her.
[00:25:14] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And we were just like, kind of laughing, just having a date night. And he was like, Oh no, you're going to be on the phone for an hour, you know, because it's my mom. And he was like, don't answer it. And I was like, I don't know. I got to answer it. I got to answer it. It was kind of like a weird. It was a weird time for her to be calling, you know?
[00:25:33] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And so I answered it and she was set. She just said, Jinge, he's gone. And I said, mom, she said, Mike's gone. And I fell out and screamed
[00:25:46] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: and my husband grabbed the phone because I couldn't, obviously I couldn't stop screaming.
[00:25:52] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah. Yeah
[00:25:54] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: that she told him, I think she tried to call back. I went to the bathroom and [00:26:00] threw up. Um, and I really don't remember much else from that night, um, except for, like, my kids, uh, coming in one by one as they got home.
[00:26:18] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, I think my youngest daughter was the only one home at that time, and she was upstairs in her room. And, um, I don't remember her coming down. I think she might have been a little too scared. And, uh, and then my kids, I just, I remember, um, sitting on my couch crying, just staring straight ahead and, and having each one of my kids on the side of me hugging me.
[00:26:42] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: But I really don't remember much else after that. Um, yeah. And then the next day was, like, you know, a blur, a shock, and,
[00:26:51] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yes, we all know we can all relate to this ginger. Yep. It's a blur It's like a it's like the world is whizzing by you. It's it's so intense.[00:27:00] 
[00:27:00] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: yeah. Yep. So then, uh, we had
[00:27:04] Ginger Ep- Maya view: did you guys go to Chicago? What was next for you then?
[00:27:07] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: That's what we had to do is, um, I got on a plane, um, within the, like, two days, two days or three days. Um, and then they came a couple days after me, um, and we were up in Illinois, um, for a week, while we, did the service and stuff like that. It's funny, there's a lot of weather stuff related to my brother.
[00:27:34] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, it was like a polar vortex. Um, the two days of his, um, his wake and his, his funeral, um, it was like 50 below windchill. Um, in Illinois, yeah, all these crazy weather things that still happen on certain times were like around him or it's birthday or the anniversary [00:28:00] or whatever. It's like the weather is weird or freezing or something like that.
[00:28:06] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, but people were wrapped around that building in the 50 below weather to come in to see him. It was, it was pretty amazing. Never seen anything like it.
[00:28:17] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah That's, uh, yeah, it's beautiful when you see people show up for her, for your loved one that's passed and it's, um, it's definitely a moment where you're like, wow, like my brother or my sister has touched this, these people. Yeah, it's,
[00:28:36] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yeah. Well, there wasn't,
[00:28:37] Ginger Ep- Maya view: it's something I experienced to ginger. So I, I had, I had, I still to this day have people reach out to me, which is really wild.
[00:28:45] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Um, but it's a beautiful thing.
[00:28:47] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: it is. It's, it's very beautiful.
[00:28:50] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah. So what, what was that like for you? So you guys had the service, you had all these folks, uh, good old Chicago. I used to live in Minnesota as [00:29:00] a kid. Oh my God. I'll never forget. I'll never forget to bring a little levity to this getting sent home. I mean, I'm 37. This was like, you know, back in the day before social media and all of that, right.
[00:29:11] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And emailing was just becoming a thing. And like, you know, so I get sent home with a note being like, it's going to be negative 60 out. Like you can't come to school. So. Trust me, I get the Chicago weather. I mean, that's, that is so impressive that, that these folks showed up. And it's just, again, really shows what he was doing and who he was as a person and all these lives he was touching.
[00:29:32] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It's really a beautiful, a beautiful thing.
[00:29:36] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: it was beautiful. It was beautiful. I mean, there were musicians from, that flew in from other states, other countries, just even our hometown community, um, uh, our, my stepdad is like one of the big coaches in our town. Like everybody knows and respects him. And [00:30:00] Mike just had a huge following and a huge effect on, on everyone around him.
[00:30:06] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And that's when you're in so much pain and the loss has just happened. It's. Sometimes in the moment I found this, I'm curious what you think about this Ginger, but I, I, I don't know if I appreciated it right in that moment as much as I do now, like looking back on it, right? Because you're in such a fog and it's so difficult.
[00:30:25] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Did you kind of feel that way too? Like, oh my god, this is amazing. But like, yeah, reflecting back, it's like,
[00:30:30] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yeah. I mean, I noticed it. I think myself and like my husband and my kids, we noticed it right away because we were removed from all the, all the big stuff that had been happening. Like, you know, we weren't at as many shows. We didn't, we didn't get to go to the blues fest. We didn't get to go to the, you know, all the big things that he was performing at and stuff like that.
[00:30:58] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, [00:31:00] When they would come to Florida, we would go if, if they were by us and stuff like that. But seeing the crowd of people was pretty new to us. We were there through all the young stuff in the high school stuff. So I was the one taking pictures and videos all through high school. And when he was singing opera at the restaurant down the street and stuff like that, but the blues stuff.
[00:31:25] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: We only got to experience the live part of it so little that coming in and seeing all of those people, we were like, Whoa. And my mom and my stepdad and everybody are like, Oh yeah, you know, this is the crowd. And we're like, Whoa, this is crazy. You know, it was, it was very touching.
[00:31:48] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah, it's it's what I always say are kind of like these, the gifts and the pain, right? Or kind of those little shining lights, even when it's so dark. It's like, Oh God, that's so beautiful. Yeah.
[00:31:59] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: [00:32:00] Yeah.
[00:32:01] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So tell us, so you guys have this incredible service, negative 50. I like, I totally have the scene painted. Cause I get it.
[00:32:07] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It's like, it's. Um, like, indescribably cold, guys, like, if you haven't experienced that, it's so horrific, so you really have to love someone to show up for that, for sure. Um, so tell us what happened, what, what was life like afterwards? It's so difficult, it's a whirlwind, we've, you know, we've all been there too, but, um, What was that like for you?
[00:32:29] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Obviously you had to return back to life and you know, walk us through what that was like for you as his sister.
[00:32:35] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, well, a lot of Uh, for me, a lot of regret, wishing you spent more time, um, took more phone calls, things like that. Worked very hard for me, um, going through our old text messages,
[00:32:56] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I just, I struggled with, with the [00:33:00] regret, mostly.
[00:33:01] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Which is a common thing that comes up Ginger, you know, like, and I'm really, I really appreciate your vulnerability and saying that because not everybody talks about that, but everybody asks about it, right? They're like, how do I get over The regret or the guilt, right, of, but I think I'm curious, you know, you're five years in now, so I'm curious how, how you moved with that because it still makes you emotional, which is okay, but how, how did you move through that?
[00:33:34] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Because I think it's important for us as we move through the journey to allow ourselves to feel all of those emotions and then realize. Of course we would have done some things differently had we known this was going to happen, right? And I think that's a part of the, the journey, but curious to hear how you've been able to move through it because it still makes you emotional and it, it always will, I think, right?
[00:33:57] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yeah. Oh, I don't think there'll ever be a time [00:34:00] where. I mean, are there times where I could talk about him in a story and not get emotional? Yes, but getting like deep into it or talking about the day or, uh, what I actually miss, um, those are hard. Um, you know, it's easier for me to listen to his music than it is for me to watch his music.
[00:34:21] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Cause when I actually see him on the stage, I'm like, So some things are easier than others. Um, I really just had to, you know, I was told to do therapy. I was told to do, you know, this or that. Um, I kind of just had to, to let myself, um, go through things day by day.
[00:34:43] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I, I go further in between now of having days like this where I will actually sit and cry about it. But a lot of that too is, you know, I'm working and which is a good thing because [00:35:00] at first I could not work, um, for a little bit. I mean, I, I took a couple of weeks off of work, but even going back, you know, you're running to the bathroom or finding a quiet corner, dark corner somewhere.
[00:35:15] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And you're just trying to fight through it. Um, I have four kids. I have a husband, um, I have a household to run. And I kind of had to try and just. deal with it. Um,
[00:35:27] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I just don't know that what really got me through everything was my faith.
[00:35:32] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah. Yeah. That was my next question for you. I was going to say, Ginger, there's always something for everyone that kind of pulls them through. And I, I, I love to hear that. So I want to ask you about this because I want to talk about this for a minute, if you don't mind. Um, so prior to losing your brother, were you, were you, Was your faith very strong prior to losing your brother?
[00:35:55] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yes. So you already had like a strong established. So I'm curious because [00:36:00] when you lost him, did you, do you feel like you lost faith before you kind of regained it again? Or I'm, I'm really curious because That was my experience. Like, I was like, really, I felt really connected to God. I went to Catholic school and stuff growing up to give context.
[00:36:16] Ginger Ep- Maya view: But I became a little more spiritual. I would classify myself a little more on the Catholic side because I wear a cross. I connect with some of it, but I'm more spiritual now. But for me, I was really getting, uh, really connected to God, was really finding that again. And then when my brother died, I was like, there's nothing, nothing exists.
[00:36:35] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It kind of went to this really opposite, dark place. And then I, I, I kind of redefined my relationship with God and I'm, I'm back again and it's much stronger and I have this really strong faith that I don't think I ever had in my life. So I'm curious, cause I'm like really connecting with this part of your journey.
[00:36:54] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Absolutely. Any, any, even those of you who are listening who are not religious, it, it doesn't matter. It's about having some [00:37:00] kind of connection or faith to something bigger. So I'm curious, Ginger, is that similar to your experience or did you just stay because some folks just stay really true and I'm like, God, I wish
[00:37:11] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: God. Yeah.
[00:37:12] Ginger Ep- Maya view: what, what happened with you on that journey?
[00:37:15] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I'm so glad you're like, when I think in my head, I hope she asks a question and then you ask it. It's crazy. But I, I had been saved for, gosh, 20, maybe 21 years. Um, when he passed away, um, but I also had two other very traumatic deaths, um, at my aunt and my grandmother, um, that I had dealt with in my life.
[00:37:44] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And those two deaths made me not believe, made me angry at God. Why would God do this? Why would God take them? Da da da da da. [00:38:00] Well, after being through those two, and then Being saved and starting my walk in Christianity because I grew up with Lutheran. Um, and then my husband's mother started planting the seed in me and really helped me on my on my walk with God and and my relationship with Jesus and so when Mike passed away, I found myself in a very different space because as devastated as I was.
[00:38:40] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And
[00:38:40] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I thought that I would be mad at God, but I wasn't, I knew that God didn't take him from me. Um, I knew this was worldly and this was an illness. And, um, so I almost found myself wanting to be mad at God because then I could just [00:39:00] be mad at that thing or be placed blame and, and be mad about it and let it go.
[00:39:07] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: But I just found myself, you know. Talking to Jesus going, I know that, you know, I know that this was, you know, perhaps you saved him, you know, because now he's not going to have to deal with this anymore. But I was not angry at God. I was very, God was there.
[00:39:29] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: God is what brought me through being able to just pray or even just lay and cry and feel the presence of God. I never, I didn't have that before when I went through losing people. Um, I, I truly felt it now because I know because of what I know and because of my walk and where I am. So that's, that's truly really what continues to get me through because there are still times where I, [00:40:00] I am just like.
[00:40:01] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Don't know that I'll ever accept it, you know, I just don't know that I can, but I just, I just know he's, I just know that he's, I'm gonna see him again. I just know that.
[00:40:14] Ginger Ep- Maya view: so, so much to comment on that. Ginger, thank you for sharing. And I was just curious because whenever I meet a sibling who has really strong faith, again, those of you listening, some of you may, some of you may not, some may have other outlets. And we'll talk about that in just a second, but I'm always curious.
[00:40:29] Ginger Ep- Maya view: I'm like, where were you? Where was your relationship right? With God or whatever faith you are, right? And it's interesting because everybody always has different answers. And so I think it's just so important to talk about that. And I think it's interesting that you had two significant deaths and then Oh, they always say it happens in threes, right?
[00:40:45] Ginger Ep- Maya view: I'm like, uh, it was very true for me too. I lost two more really beautiful people in my life within, you know, like that year, year and a half after my brother. So it's, I understand what you're saying, Ginger, because for me, it was [00:41:00] like, I was so, I was like flip flopped of you. I was spinned around the other way and this was so like, I hadn't really, I lost my grandfather who I wasn't close with like in 2009, hadn't really had this close of a loss.
[00:41:12] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And then these two other ones happened and it was just like, oh my god. But I was angry. I was angry at God. I was like, no way, you don't exist anymore. You know what I mean? I'm like, you, if you existed, you would not have done
[00:41:23] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: this. Yeah. Correct.
[00:41:25] Ginger Ep- Maya view: We're on the same page, Ginger. Exactly. And so, what I grew into, and I've talked about here on the show before, and you guys can go back and listen to season one, because I go real deep into this if you want to listen to it, but through time, I realized, like, this isn't, Drawing yourself closer to your faith, whatever that may be.
[00:41:46] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Maybe it's nature, maybe your faith is nature, whatever it is, right? Like I'm not here to, to, to say that. But for me, developing a deeper spirituality, I always say this too, Ginger, that really what helps you get through the, [00:42:00] the grieving journey. And we talked about siblings here, so sibling loss, but I think it's true of is having a couple of different. Aspects taken care of. So your mental health, your emotional health, and your spiritual health. And sometimes people are like, well, I'm not religious. And I'm like, that's not what I mean though. Whatever you believe in, like if it's a, if you believe in nature walks, like, The world is real, right? Like go in nature, connect.
[00:42:24] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It's about a spiritual connection. And so that, that was a part and that was like my last piece because my physical, I knew I was running, I was taking care of my health. That changed. Perfect. Going to therapy was for my mental, eventually went to group things. That was my mental, but my spiritual was the one that lagged because I was angry.
[00:42:48] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Like you said, I was angry. And so once I released the anger, the spiritual aspect really helped. And, and we don't have to understand it all. We don't have to [00:43:00] understand why, whatever our spiritual belief is, why this has happened, because we're never going to have all the answers. But it's a great feeling to know, like, there's something bigger out there, and I think that was a mega turning point for me.
[00:43:13] Ginger Ep- Maya view: That took me a lot longer than you, Ginger, so I'm a little jealous, not gonna lie. But, I wish I had had that in my tool belt a little earlier, which is why we do this show and talk about these things. But, um, Yeah, I'm really glad I asked you about that. And I'm really glad that you have your faith. And I connect with you as well because my parents were Lutheran.
[00:43:31] Ginger Ep- Maya view: They just put us in Catholic school. But as life has, my dad always tells me, he thinks it's very interesting because he's like, it's interesting that you found, you know, your connection with the, like, more of the Catholic and more of spiritual. And I'm like, yeah, but I think we are, it just, Things in our life shape us and call us to certain things.
[00:43:47] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And that's what happened for me. And I, I'm so glad that you have that in your life because I think it is helpful. And those three elements, like I just think it's so it's how you move forward. And like you, and you also said this too, I [00:44:00] want to point this out. You said you're never going to accept it. I am not a fan of, of the term acceptance, but I am a fan of acknowledgement.
[00:44:10] Ginger Ep- Maya view: We're here. We're talking about it. We've acknowledged it, but this term of acceptance makes us. Because it comes from the stages, you know, of grief, and everybody's like, okay, once I'm, how long does it take, especially in the beginning, right? You're like, how long does it take to, to get, till I get to acceptance?
[00:44:27] Ginger Ep- Maya view: How am I going to do that? The reality is, you don't, because you're going to be sad again, or you're going to be angry again, or you're going to feel an emotion again. It's about, are you able to acknowledge it, right? Are you able to say, yes, this happened? And this is where I am with it. And so, I'm like you, I'm never gonna accept it, but I acknowledge it, and we're gonna talk about it.
[00:44:46] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And it's so, like, it's so different for everybody. Um, you know, with my other two significant deaths in my life, I did go to group. I, you know, we, we did the circle group. I did therapy. I did all of [00:45:00] these other things. They didn't help me the way that my faith has helped me. So yeah, the way that I actually turned out and dealt with those deaths in my earlier years, I might've been, well, I know I would have been a different person mentally in, with my mental health, had I had my faith back then, no doubt about it.
[00:45:27] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, and so I'm eternally grateful to my mother in law for, for helping me, you know, find that and, um, But I also noticed in the grief process, like the first year, a lot of people say, Oh, the first year is the worst. The first year is the worst. For me, year two was the absolute worst.
[00:45:52] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Me too, Ginger. Mm
[00:45:53] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Like all the noise stopped.
[00:45:55] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And for my brother, because he was a musician, maybe for you too. [00:46:00] Um, there were all these tribute shows happening. There was the awards. There were, you know, fellow musicians that were holding shows in his honor and stuff like that. People were raising money for his family and his children and all that first year.
[00:46:21] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And then all of a sudden, the second year, it was like, silent. Now all the noise has stopped. The music has
[00:46:27] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Right?
[00:46:28] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: down, if you will, you know. And then you're left with the reality of what's really happening. Like it's really over. So year two was definitely the worst one. I think year one, I'm in sho you're in shock.
[00:46:45] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: You, at least for me, in shock and just in a daze in, of disbelief. And then that second year when you're like, oh, okay, nothing's going on. People, [00:47:00] you know, more and more people stop calling or texting or checking in and cause everybody's moving on. And then you're like, I should be moving on. And I can't because this is even worse than last year.
[00:47:12] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yes.
[00:47:13] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: so yeah, the grieving journey is, is different for everybody.
[00:47:18] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It, it is, but what's so interesting, so I had the same experience as you, Ginger, you're two. Your one was, was awful. I'm, uh, and I, I wanna be clear to anybody who's newly bereaved, and we talk about this all the time here, in group. On TikTok, you know, all the places you guys interact with me. Your one is awful.
[00:47:35] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Like, I'm, we're not saying it's not awful. It's awful. But you're right. The majority of you who have lost a sibling, you're in shock when it happens because it's not supposed to happen, right? I mean, are we 33, 34? I mean, 27? I mean, come on. This is so young. It's not supposed to happen. So there's a shock aspect to it.
[00:47:54] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And, you That lasts longer for some people or, you know, it's a little bit shorter for others, but that [00:48:00] first year is pretty textbook. You know, if you, if you listen to the, you know, episodes here, Ginger, you and I are sharing it with pretty much everyone else.
[00:48:09] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Yeah.
[00:48:10] Ginger Ep- Maya view: you had such a beautiful way of describing that the music stops, literally.
[00:48:14] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And in your case with Mike, right? Literally the music stops. And so, else is moving on with their lives because they have families and jobs and, you know, and, and that's it. Like, we're, no reason for us to be upset about that, but this is still very real for us. And it's like, Oh my God, you know, the next birthday comes around, the next holiday comes around, Christmas, New Year's, and it's real.
[00:48:35] Ginger Ep- Maya view: They're not there. And it really is setting in. And I like how you described it by the music stops, because it's like, it just resonates with me so much because it's like, you're in the silence. You're in the true
[00:48:47] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: True silence.
[00:48:48] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And you're with your thoughts and your feelings and that's why like you said your faith I love that that you're sharing about this so openly on the episode because your faith is what [00:49:00] worked for you and That's why we encourage people and I love everyone that comes on this show encouraging people to try different things because Therapy might be the right thing for you.
[00:49:10] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Or going to a group. Like, I see a lot of people in our group really thrive because They're super extroverted or it's funny because grief changes you so much So sometimes these folks that are like I was so introverted But now I just want to be around people that understand me So you have to be open to different things because grief really like you said it it evolves it You know, it's it's a journey like we were talking about
[00:49:33] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: is.
[00:49:33] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So you may find what worked for you in the past You It might be something totally different because I'm extremely extroverted.
[00:49:40] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Shocker. I know you guys are shocked by that, but I needed one on one therapy. That was, I needed, I needed like to quiet all of this going on in my head because it was, like, we're talking about very quiet year two. I needed someone where I could be just like very vulnerable and open. So I think trying different things and being [00:50:00] open, um, to, you know, a faith in, in whatever, whatever is going to work for you because you're not going to be, you're not the same person anymore.
[00:50:08] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It changes you.
[00:50:09] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And also part of my experience with this is we. I don't know. I, you know, I'm sure there's people that are close with their parents and people that aren't close with their parents, but you're not just grieving. For me, in my case, I felt like I was grieving my brother, right? But then you start to realize you're not just grieving your brother because your parents are never going to be the same.
[00:50:39] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And so I also went through grieving the mom, the stepdad. That I had because I just knew that they were not ever going to be the same again. So that was another Really hard part of this journey for me. Me and my mom are [00:51:00] best friends. We're extremely close And so it's very hard that I know that a part of my mom is is gone That I'm never gonna get that back. But I'm a mom, and I completely understand, and I don't know how she has been able to deal with this with such grace, and she's just like the strongest person I know. It's like we said over and over again, it's a journey, and it's so different for everybody.
[00:51:28] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah. And what you're describing again, so perfectly Ginger, is The losses we don't know about until it happens. We lose who our parents were. They're forever changed too. So why, why wouldn't we? But we're not going to think about that until something like this happens. We just don't think about that. Why would we?
[00:51:48] Ginger Ep- Maya view: That'd be morbid if we thought about those things all the time, right? I'm kind of grateful we don't think about it, but it's so important that we do talk about it, right? And I think what I find in sharing all of [00:52:00] your stories is There's really no in between with the family dynamic, uh, it'll really rip a family apart or it will really bring a family together.
[00:52:08] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And what I love in your story is, is just the beautiful relationship that you have with your mother and, you know, you guys are still obviously close and you're close with your, obviously, stepdad, like you have a family unit, but you're normalizing and also saying, Guys, yes, I have this beautiful relationship with my parents, but they're changed.
[00:52:28] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And. I understand. And there's finding that love and compassion within yourself and as a mom, of course, you're going to get it because your, your mind, I'm sure, went, Oh my God, if I lost one of mine, like, how would I even be, you know, so you have that compassion and empathy, which I think is really important to continue that bond and to grow together through, you grow through the grief instead of You know,
[00:52:51] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Oh, yeah.
[00:52:51] Ginger Ep- Maya view: I, I think that's important too, growing with it and understanding that you aren't all changed.
[00:52:56] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: It just becomes a part of who you are. It's just a, [00:53:00] another version of who you are and, you know, and that's okay. I mean,
[00:53:06] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It is
[00:53:07] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: it could've, yeah, it's, it happens. I mean, life is a part of death, right? We, doesn't make it easier, but, um, and it took me five years to, you know, to even talk to myself like this, like, yes, life is a part of death.
[00:53:27] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: even address it towards my brother's situation because I still just, you know, you, you, I hurt for his children and my parents and his girlfriends so much and the things that could be, I just, you know, it's just hard not to hurt about it. Yeah,
[00:53:47] Ginger Ep- Maya view: secondary losses too, right? He doesn't get to see the milestones with his kids and his girlfriend and there's all of those losses as well and they're losses to you because you don't get to see him experiencing all [00:54:00] of those things with his children and his partner. That's hard.
[00:54:04] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: very hard.
[00:54:05] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yeah, and navigating all of that is difficult. And that's why we, why we have this show and why we have this community to tell you guys, like. There's folks like you Ginger out here, and it's it's okay to say it's tough because it is.
[00:54:18] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: it is.
[00:54:20] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So a couple last questions for you Before we close out Ginger again. Thank you for being so vulnerable and in sharing Um, just to of course so just to just to touch on this real quick because again I'm really glad we're bringing awareness to epilepsy and we've talked a little bit about seizures on the show before when we've had guests Um, and then we have a, we have a guest on who had, we had one guest who had a brother who had a brain tumor.
[00:54:42] Ginger Ep- Maya view: So there's some overlap, but this is, this is really bringing light to epilepsy. When your brother passed away, was there anything that he could have done differently or was it just unfortunately he had a seizure? It was the wrong time, wrong [00:55:00] place in the shower? And, and that was that. Cause I, I want to shed light on that if we can help someone with the episode, which I know we will, of course.
[00:55:08] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Um, so that's hard because, um, without really knowing, we don't know if he didn't take his medication with him that night, um, when he went to his gig because he had every intention of taking the train home that evening. So I don't know that anyone knows if he had his medication that night. And so I don't know if that could have played a part of it.
[00:55:37] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: I, he wasn't feeling well, like there was mention of maybe food poisoning or something like that. Um, I don't know if it was food poisoning or if there was something else. I don't believe so. Um, but I feel like maybe he didn't take his medication. Um, but to have [00:56:00] three seizures in one day is, is a lot. I mean, one's a lot, but three.
[00:56:07] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: So. I'm not really sure. I don't think anybody really knows.
[00:56:12] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And this, and this is one of those things like so many of us experience as siblings. It's something we'll never know for sure. Right? And it's something as you move through your grief journey and your process, like you said, Ginger, your faith is strong. And so you kind of have to just in your case, right?
[00:56:28] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And whatever works for you guys, but in your case, I'm sure you just got to a point where you're like, I just kind of give this to God because it's just, it happened. And
[00:56:35] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And we can't, we can't just keep trying to play things out in our head or mind because we don't, we just don't know and we're never going to figure it out and all that really does is kind of like torture. Like for me, it's always like I'm picturing the worst thing. Which, God's working on me on that, but I'm trying to have a better outlook [00:57:00] on things more positively, but with something like that, you just never know.
[00:57:04] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: The more you try and think of it or put your own spin on it, it's just not good,
[00:57:10] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Oh, I
[00:57:11] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: mentally for you.
[00:57:12] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Yes. And it keeps you stuck. It keeps you really stuck. And it's, again, something we've talked about here before, and I wanted to get your perspective from your particular loss, Ginger, but it's also, it's okay in the beginning, right? Because we're going to do it. It's natural.
[00:57:29] Ginger Ep- Maya view: It's just don't stay stuck there. That's the advice I always give, right? Find a way to release that and whatever that is and whatever, however that works for you, right? And, and I think that's really. Important. Um, ginger before we close out anything else that anything I didn't touch on that you would like to share with the incredible siblings and supporters that listen to our show any, any pieces of advice or anything before we close out.
[00:57:54] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: No, I just want to thank you for having me and thank you for using your [00:58:00] platform for something like this because up until now, what, you know, even in the beginning, um, I thought I might. Find a group. I thought I might, you know, I thought about starting a group at church, you know, um, for things like this.
[00:58:15] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: And I, I never really did. And when I saw this, I was like, Oh, maybe finally some people that will understand what I'm going through. And so I just want to thank you for, for doing this.
[00:58:27] Ginger Ep- Maya view: My absolute pleasure. And I'm, I'm like you, I, you know, years ago, like I told you five years, that was a pivotal moment for me too. So I'm really happy you told your story, um, on, on the show. I think there's something to five, 10, like these are significant years, right? And so I just knew I was ready then.
[00:58:47] Ginger Ep- Maya view: And you know, I, I appreciate you sharing your story. So thanks for being here. And if people would like to connect with you, where would you like them to reach out to?
[00:58:56] I mean, I'm on Facebook, Instagram. [00:59:00] I have a Tik TOK. I don't really use it that much. I'm not that tech savvy.
[00:59:04] Ginger Ep- Maya view: But you did find me, so there you go.
[00:59:06] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: find you and you can message me there.
[00:59:09] Ginger Ep- Maya view: Okay, perfect. We'll, um, we'll put your handles in the show notes. And Ginger, thank you for sharing your story. And thank you for sharing Mike. And I hope people still enjoy his music for many, many decades to come. Um, and thank you again for being here. We
[00:59:24] Ginger Ep- Ginger View: Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Thank you so much.
[00:59:27] Ginger Ep- Maya view: My pleasure. And thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings podcast. 
[00:59:31] Mhm.