Elliet Loses Dylan To A 4-Wheeling Accident

Elliet Loses Dylan To A 4-Wheeling Accident- Podcast
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host, Maya ler. As a surviving sibling myself, I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November, 2016, and after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story. And his story, and now it's your turn to share your stories.

[00:00:36] Elliet- Maya View: Today I have another incredible bereaved sibling with me. Elliot is with us today. Elliot, welcome to the show.

[00:00:43] Elliet- Elliet View: Hey, how's it going?

[00:00:44] Elliet- Maya View: It's going great. It's going great, and really excited and looking forward to your story. You lost your sibling. You lost Dylan over 22 years ago, so you have quite a journey to share with us, [00:01:00] Elliot. Elliot, take us back to 2003 when you lost Dylan. Tell us a little bit about your life, what that looked like, your relationship with Dylan.

[00:01:09] Elliet- Elliet View: Dylan was my best friend. He and I were pretty much inseparable. In 2003. I was eight and he was six. Our parents were really close. We were really close. The four of us traveled around our area a lot. We camped and fished and we did a whole bunch of things together as a family. The four of us, we had dinner together every night.

[00:01:37] Elliet- Elliet View: My parents worked opposite schedules. My dad was a police officer and my mom was a teacher, so he worked the night shift and she worked during the day. So we all got together for dinner every night. And the four were just really close. And my brother was my best friend. I was a weird kid.

[00:01:59] Elliet- Elliet View: [00:02:00] I have since recently been diagnosed as autistic and a DHD, but I didn't know that at the time, obviously. And I had a hard time making friends. I had a hard time connecting with people and. Dylan was always there. He was younger than me. Yeah. But he stood up for me when people were bullying me on the playground.

[00:02:22] Elliet- Elliet View: He was always around. He was my best friend and we went through everything together. He was the only person that stuck by me at the time.

[00:02:31] Elliet- Maya View: And you have that interesting relationship that this comes up a lot too. Being the only surviving sibling, you're the only. And so that really changes a lot as well. And there's a unique relationship I come from, what's considered a big family these days. I'm the oldest of four Elliot, right?

[00:02:49] Elliet- Maya View: So, it's interesting and a lot of you guys listening can likely relate to Elliot with this. But when you lose your only sibling. That creates a [00:03:00] lot of dynamic changes in the family. And I know we're gonna get into that because that's a big part of your story, but take us back and I love that Dylan was like your little advocate and like had your back.

[00:03:12] Elliet- Maya View: And I connect with that too because even though I'm the oldest of four, my brother was my sidekick. I have two surviving sisters, but my brother growing up, we were three years apart. He was younger than me, so I connect with you on that. And he was like my little sidekick. I was a total tomboy, which some people are like you or a tomboy.

[00:03:30] Elliet- Maya View: I'm like, yes, I was. I like, him and I were outside playing together all the time. So I deeply connect with you on that and I Right, right. It's like your little sidekick. And I think what you brought up too, Elliot, is, having certain, like being a DHD and things like that, like in 2003, like we didn't really talk about that kind of stuff like we do now.

[00:03:51] Elliet- Maya View: And so it's really, I'm sure it's nice that you're able to understand yourself now and understand more about yourself and like, oh, this is why I behaved this [00:04:00] way and this is why I acted this way and this is why. But back then it was like, I just thought, we didn't talk about autism or anything like that back then

[00:04:07] Elliet- Elliet View: I got diagnosed, I called and told my dad and I was shocked 'cause I wasn't expecting that diagnosis. And I called my dad and he's like, oh yeah, we knew. We just decided to deal with it at home.

[00:04:19] Elliet- Maya View: Oh wow.

[00:04:21] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah.

[00:04:21] Elliet- Maya View: interesting. Elliot, that's interesting because God, I didn't realize we were gonna have so much in common right off the bat, but that's so interesting because my brother was extremely A-D-H-D-I to this day, still know that he had bipolar and. My family, like this was all discovered when he was in his twenties.

[00:04:44] Elliet- Maya View: So when were you diagnosed?

[00:04:45] Elliet- Elliet View: I got my formal diagnosis three and a half years ago.

[00:04:50] Elliet- Maya View: So very recent. Wow.

[00:04:53] Elliet- Elliet View: And growing up, like we talked about how Dylan was a DHD, that was not a secret. That was something we all [00:05:00] talked about. Like, I remember my parents giving us mountain Dew calm down, to go to sleep, and like that was just a normal thing, but it was always geared towards.

[00:05:14] Elliet- Elliet View: Dylan, we talked about the fact that he had a DHD. They never discussed what was going on with me other than I was classified as a gifted kid in school and they want, the school was talking about like moving me up a grade, but they ultimately didn't wanna do it because I didn't have the social skills. And so that was the only time that was ever really talked about was in that regard. So it was really interesting having that realization just a few years ago of, yeah, we were talking about Dylan being a DHD, but they were doing the same things with me. Like they'd give us both a small glass of Mountain Dew, that kind of thing.

[00:05:56] Elliet- Elliet View: That's a silly example, but it's the easiest one that comes to mind. [00:06:00] But they were doing the stuff with both of us. We just only ever talked about it with respect to him.

[00:06:05] Elliet- Maya View: How interesting. And I actually love your example of Mountain Dew because oh my God, like that's, it's a stimulant. It's a mega, it's like the ultimate caffeine that you give, right? And so how fascinating, and I'm sure as you look back over. Like the past since you were officially diagnosed, I'm sure you're just like, over these past three years, you're looking back and going a light bulb, oh, that's what was going on with me.

[00:06:32] Elliet- Maya View: Right? Like what an interesting journey. But what you said about your father was so interesting to me too, because I remember my mom and my own father behaving very similarly with my brother. It was like, oh, we, no we're just gonna handle it at home. My brother had so many issues with focus and staying in school and like, he was super bright and super intelligent, but he had a lot of, he was bipolar too.

[00:06:55] Elliet- Maya View: And so the regulating the emotions and all of that, and it was so obvious [00:07:00] to me and I was like, especially when I did my own therapy. So it was like, why were we, but they had a very similar reaction when these things started to become obvious and like diagnosable. It was like, well we're, we just handled it home.

[00:07:13] Elliet- Elliet View: Bit of a struggle with that of like realizing that there's all these coping tools and I. Just like life management tools that I never really learned as a kid, but my parents were doing what they could in terms of making sure that both Dylan and I were always stimulated in one way or another.

[00:07:33] Elliet- Elliet View: Like we were both in, both involved in sports constantly and at school. We were doing regular school stuff and then we'd come home and our parents would teach us all these other things. We were always learning, we were always moving, and like they, they did what they could. And again, in 2003 with the information that they had, it was, looking back I can see that they were [00:08:00] trying so hard to do what they could.

[00:08:04] Elliet- Elliet View: And it's just interesting having the hindsight to be like, there's all these different things about my life that I could have been learning as I was growing up, rather than having to try to learn them as an adult.

[00:08:14] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah. And I think, but I think it's really amazing that you're able to have that empathy to be like they were doing what they thought was right. Right. And I think that's a beauty and a thing that comes, I think it comes with loss. Right. I think that we have a, yeah. It's interesting. It's a sprinkled theme this season as I'm recording with all of you incredible siblings that have lost siblings.

[00:08:38] Elliet- Maya View: It's a, it's an empathy season for sure. 'cause we are able, I think. It can, it's easy to say, oh, this could have been better or this could have, but like, when we go through a significant loss, especially like you Elliot, at a young age, there's an empathy that is instilled in us. And it used to blow people's minds because people would be like, wait a second, [00:09:00] you became more empathetic after a traumatic loss.

[00:09:03] Elliet- Maya View: And I'm like, yes, while you can be angry and go through all these emotions, right, you can also become more empathetic. And I so feel that with you. And we're gonna get into all of that. But Elliot take us back to this day with Dylan, where it was extremely unexpected how you lost Dylan.

[00:09:20] Elliet- Maya View: So take us back to that day of four-wheeling.

[00:09:24] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah, so it was just a couple weeks after spring break. We had a wonderful spring break that we got to go spend with our nana and papa. It's my dad's parents. We went to Disneyland with them. They took the two of us to Disneyland for spring break. We got to hang out and they lived in Nevada at the time.

[00:09:42] Elliet- Elliet View: We got to hang out in Nevada in the warm weather, and we came back and it was a couple weekends later. Our neighborhood at the time, we were all really, I. Close knit. It was a neighborhood of fairly similarly aged [00:10:00] parents with fairly similarly aged kids. A lot of our neighbors had older siblings about my age and younger siblings, about Dylan's age.

[00:10:11] Elliet- Elliet View: So everyone kinda looked out for each other. All of us played in the street around the neighborhood. We rode bikes and all of the adults around the neighborhood all looked out for all the other kids. And it was like there was this big sense of camaraderie around the neighborhood. But my parents in particular were friends with a couple of neighbors down the street.

[00:10:31] Elliet- Elliet View: That particular day we'd gone down to one of the neighbor's houses and we were all just hanging out and playing, enjoying the, spring weather. Neighbors that we were with, their daughter was right about a year younger than me.

[00:10:49] Elliet- Elliet View: And she and I were playing outside and , their son was about a year younger than Dylan. So he was playing with Dylan and we were just all [00:11:00] enjoying the day.

[00:11:01] Elliet- Elliet View: It's not like we grew up with a whole bunch of technology or anything. Megan and I were playing with the Barbies on the sidewalk, and Dylan and the neighbor boy came over and they wanted to play with us.

[00:11:14] Elliet- Elliet View: We didn't necessarily want our younger brothers crashing the very involved game that we'd been playing. And so, it sounds mean now, at the time we. Had done it on purpose to get them to go away which feels so mean thinking about it. But we had told them that they could play with us if they played the girl Barbies because we knew what we wanted the boy Barbies to do.

[00:11:41] Elliet- Elliet View: And they obviously didn't want to do that. So they left. They they said they were gonna go ask our dads if they could go take a ride on the four wheelers instead. And I remember feeling off about it. I remember something feeling just not quite right. [00:12:00] And the boys had clearly gone to go talk to our dads.

[00:12:06] Elliet- Elliet View: And there was another neighbor guy that was there with his son as well. His son was about the same age as the other two boys. And so all three dads got on the four wheelers with all three boys and they drove off. Now, I suppose I should probably clarify, the boys, none of them at six years old were driving on their own four wheelers.

[00:12:28] Elliet- Elliet View: They were like sitting in front of their dads and everyone was wearing helmets and it was all very safe.

[00:12:35] Elliet- Maya View: Disclaimer was very safe. 

[00:12:36] Elliet- Elliet View: Everyone was safe. No six year olds were driving four wheelers on their own, I promise. 

[00:12:40] We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host, Maya Rother. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor.

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[00:14:22] Elliet- Elliet View: But I remember feeling absolutely sick when I heard the four wheelers leave.

[00:14:30] Elliet- Elliet View: That is the first time in my life that I can remember just feeling unsettled about something. My stomach went cold and I just was paralyzed with how awful I felt. And I didn't know how to explain this to the neighbor girl that I was playing with, and it's not something I'd ever experienced. So I didn't even.

[00:14:51] Elliet- Elliet View: Have any idea where to begin. So I suggested to her that we go ask our moms if we could have popsicles. They were sitting up on the front [00:15:00] porch. We went up and while she was asking her mom if we could have popsicles, I asked my mom where the guys had gone, which was obvious because, we'd heard them leave, but she said that they'd left on four wheelers, left on the four wheelers and that they'd be back.

[00:15:16] Elliet- Elliet View: And that's the last thing I remember for a little while and a couple hours later, which was obviously way too long. We were all inside and the way the houses were set up, they were mostly the split level where you walk in the front door and you've got stairs going up and the stairs going down and.

[00:15:37] Elliet- Elliet View: Upstairs going in upstairs, there was like the three windows that kind of stuck out a little bit. And I remember we were sitting in the living room and a cop car pulled up in front of the house. The lights weren't on, but a cop car pulled up in front of the house I saw my dad get out of, he was sitting in the front seat.

[00:15:59] Elliet- Elliet View: [00:16:00] But my dad was a police officer at the time, and all of his friends were police officers. And so it made sense. 

[00:16:08] Elliet- Maya View: It wasn't too crazy yet for you

[00:16:10] Elliet- Elliet View: it wasn't too crazy. It wasn't too crazy because like all of his friends were police officers and I was used to, it was a normal site for me.

[00:16:20] Elliet- Elliet View: And when he came in the house, I didn't see his face when he came in, but the adults had, and they started ushering the kids into the bedrooms. And I got into her bedroom before she got there. She was lagging behind. She was protesting at being ushered outta the room. And when she finally got into her room, she told me she thought she'd overheard my dad say that Dylan had died.

[00:16:54] Elliet- Maya View: This was your friend? That you've been playing with? Yeah. 

[00:16:56] Elliet- Elliet View: Yep. So she was seven at the [00:17:00] time.

[00:17:00] Elliet- Maya View: Wow.

[00:17:02] Elliet- Elliet View: And she told me that she thought she'd heard that, and I said some like, no way. Like, that's not possible. That's, you must have heard them wrong. But I still felt just absolutely sick despite, me protesting with her, I like, I knew she wasn't wrong and it sounds weird and I don't know, maybe kooky to say that,

[00:17:25] Elliet- Maya View: I think it's intuition. It's intuition. And you were so young, right? And like this is like your first big event where like you. Tap or are being forced to, but also it's coming out as intuition and like we don't ever forget the first time we have a bad feeling about something or, and for this to be that kind of big moment where that happened for you Elliot, and it's this big, I

[00:17:51] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah.

[00:17:52] Elliet- Maya View: think it sounds weird or crazy or anything at all.

[00:17:54] Elliet- Maya View: I think as siblings, this is why we talk about these stories on this show and [00:18:00] just, we offer all this support because we have a connection, right? We have a connection. There's something really amazing that bonds us together as siblings and that is in you even at a young age, which is showing through your story and your recollection of it, and you knew something didn't feel right and.

[00:18:20] Elliet- Maya View: Our brains, I feel like often process a lot slower. Like, your friend is telling you this, but there's, and you're like, no way. But in your gut and in your intuition, heart, whatever you wanna call it, you knew something was off the whole time.

[00:18:33] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah, and he and I were, he and I were really connected

[00:18:38] Elliet- Maya View: what happened next? So you, she's your friend is telling you this, and you're in this room and your head is going, no your intuition is going, yeah, maybe because this doesn't feel right. What happened next?

[00:18:51] Elliet- Elliet View: for me, that's the worst part of the day. What happened next? My parents left.

[00:18:58] Elliet- Maya View: Wow.

[00:18:58] Elliet- Elliet View: left the house. [00:19:00] And the mom that was at the house that we were at she told me to go down to my house and grab some PJ's for the night and come back and that I was gonna stay there for the night.

[00:19:12] Elliet- Elliet View: So I walked down to my house and I got PJ's and came back and slept in the neighbor girls' room that night. Well, I didn't actually sleep. I didn't sleep at all. I was up all night. And then my parents eventually came back the next morning.

[00:19:30] Elliet- Maya View: So you are just this young child. No answers. You have no con confirmation at all about Dylan at this point. So when your parents came back the next morning, did they sit you down? Did they speak to you, Elliot? What happened?

[00:19:48] Elliet- Elliet View: They did. I remember curling up in my dad's lap, in their living room. And he told me what had happened. He just explained that there was an accident and that, Dylan had passed and that he wasn't gonna [00:20:00] be coming home. And I'm not really sure I had a super good understanding of what death even really was at the time.

[00:20:08] Elliet- Elliet View: I was eight years old. We hadn't even lost a pet at that point.

[00:20:12] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah 

[00:20:13] Elliet- Elliet View: we had a dog, but she was alive and well all the way up until I was in college. I'm not really sure I knew. Exactly what death meant at the time, but I did know that he wasn't coming home. The next couple weeks turned into a really hectic blur of family coming and funeral arrangements.

[00:20:36] Elliet- Elliet View: And it was all very weird. Like when we were preparing for the funeral, I remember my mom taking me to the store to find something to wear for the funeral, and she specifically wanted me to pick out like a light colored dress, something that wasn't black.

[00:20:59] Elliet- Maya View: Interesting.[00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah. And I ended up in this like green greenish bluish flower print dress.

[00:21:06] Elliet- Elliet View: I don't know. It was odd to me at the time, and it's still odd to me now. I don't know, I don't know how to make sense of that one,

[00:21:15] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah. It's like those moments when you look back on those, like what may seem like small details to other people, they're big for us, like in our journey. Right. And they're like, that is a representation, right? Like what you're wearing is a representation. And it's interesting to me because that's, those are very cheery and uplifting colors.

[00:21:36] Elliet- Maya View: That's not a drab type of attire that one would wear at eight years old. Right. So interesting. And you remember it so vividly. 22 years later. Yeah.

[00:21:47] Elliet- Elliet View: vividly. Yes. There's a handful of scattered things that I remember from that time. Planning the funeral. I. Like, I remember going [00:22:00] with my aunt, my mom's sister and her husband to go get him to get a suit, to pick out a suit for him again for the funeral, and listening to my aunt explain to the guy at the suit store wherever we were what had happened, and hearing for the first time in like adult language, what had happened.

[00:22:26] Elliet- Maya View: So take us there, Elliot, because that is a moment. So because they told you. When you were at the neighbor's house, like there was an accident, which is really appropriate, in defense, right, of parents like that was really appropriate. But you now get another version, which is probably the more detailed version.

[00:22:47] Elliet- Maya View: So what did you hear? And if you don't mind sharing with us what actually did happen, because the last thing you saw was the boys leaving and you knew they were going with the dads, and then you find out there was an accident and Dylan is gone. So [00:23:00] there's a lot of stuff to piece together in the story.

[00:23:03] Elliet- Maya View: So what did you hear? And then also, if you don't mind filling us in, so we have knowledge because so much could happen on a four wheel wheeler. My mind goes, oh my gosh. Yeah,

[00:23:12] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah, so what I overheard, and they were, they clearly thought that I couldn't hear them or like wasn't paying attention or something, but she said that the four-wheeler had hit a rock and tipped over, and that the handlebars had snapped his neck.

[00:23:31] Elliet- Maya View: Oh my god.

[00:23:32] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah, so I overheard

[00:23:34] Elliet- Maya View: what was going through your mind?

[00:23:36] Elliet- Maya View: Right, right. So how did your 8-year-old self process that? Yeah,

[00:23:41] Elliet- Elliet View: I was really surprised

[00:23:44] Elliet- Maya View: yeah.

[00:23:44] Elliet- Elliet View: I'm not really sure. That was a hard one for me to process. I was not expecting to have that detailed of information about what had happened, thinking about that was really hard for me to wrap my head around [00:24:00] all the way up until the funeral, which was another wildly vivid and not great time.

[00:24:10] Elliet- Elliet View: Like we had a open casket funeral. 

[00:24:14] Elliet- Maya View: About that. Yeah. 

[00:24:16] Elliet- Elliet View: I remember walking up to the casket next to my mom and seeing that his lips were blue and I had no idea why. Like I didn't understand, biology and anatomy and all of that at the time. And so I vividly remember asking my mom why his lips were blue and she explained it's 'cause there's no blood in them anymore. Like weird detail to remember. And the guy who was like officiating the funeral or whatever you call it mispronounced our last name. That's

[00:24:54] Elliet- Maya View: Oh my God.

[00:24:55] Elliet- Elliet View: memory I have. Well, he was like a family friend and always mispronounced [00:25:00] our last name. Historically speaking. They had known him like our family had known him for a long time, and he just always pronounced our last name.

[00:25:09] Elliet- Elliet View: And I just remember that very vividly sitting there watching this man conduct my brother's funeral and mispronouncing our name and just being unreasonably upset about it,

[00:25:20] Elliet- Maya View: But little did your 8-year-old self know that's totally normal in grief. Right? Like, 'cause you don't forget it. And those are the things that we get super upset about. So what great insight Elliot, that like, even at eight, those similar things were upsetting to you as folks all the way up until, until we leave this earth Right.

[00:25:39] Elliet- Maya View: And go wherever we go. But it's interesting that even an 8-year-old would be like, I can't believe you said my name wrong. That's so cute. It's cute. I think it's cute.

[00:25:47] Elliet- Elliet View: It just felt like such an out-of-body experience. Again, I know now that's dissociation happening, but at the time I didn't understand why everything around me just felt so fuzzy and I felt like I was seeing the [00:26:00] world from outside my own body and everything.

[00:26:02] Elliet- Elliet View: And to have just that kind of snap into my body moment of this dude's saying our name wrong at my brother's funeral. What it's funny to think about.

[00:26:14] Elliet- Elliet View: Walking up to the casket specifically and like seeing him laying there. That was, I think that was the moment when everything started to make sense.

[00:26:25] Elliet- Maya View: It was like he really is dead. Like you really felt it at that moment. Yeah, because everything prior to that, because you hadn't, Elliot, you hadn't seen Dylan's body prior to that. Right. There was not. So that's why it was like, and as a child it's definitely not any, anything the same.

[00:26:42] Elliet- Maya View: But I was about 10, I think 11, 11 when I saw, yeah, 11, maybe shy of 12. Actually somewhere around there. You know these ages. They, but it was the

[00:26:52] Elliet- Elliet View: Do blend.

[00:26:53] Elliet- Maya View: they do, I saw an open casket. It was of a baby, a neighbor baby that died in our neighborhood. [00:27:00] And my mom took me to the funeral, and that is imprinted in my mind forever.

[00:27:05] Elliet- Maya View: I can't, I, that was, I was older than you Elliot, so, and I knew this baby because I babysat for them. So it was a very wild experience. And I connect with what you're saying because it was like, I really understood what death was at that point. Maybe not in the way that I would later in life, but I was like, oh, this is death.

[00:27:24] Elliet- Maya View: It was so intense seeing such a young body lifeless. And I was like, it was so imprinted on me. So I can't even imagine being eight and seeing my brother what, like, what a moment. I can understand why that was like a moment for you. And the moment it's probably your, I would ask you this, is this kind of like your moment where it was like, okay, this is real.

[00:27:52] Elliet- Maya View: Like here we start this new life. Was that kind of when that kind of imprinted on you or where did you go from that moment? Because that feels very [00:28:00] real for an 8-year-old.

[00:28:02] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah, it was it. It was that moment and I would, obviously I was young and everything, and trauma looks a little different when you're young, but that moment was pretty traumatic for me and I ended up having like for flashbacks and nightmares and stuff for years, remembering that moment. And there's nothing scary or dramatic or whatever about that, but something about it really hit me and ended up having flashbacks and nightmares for years of just that one moment.

[00:28:36] Elliet- Elliet View: And I was never. At the place where the crash happened, I never saw the four wheeler again. Like I, I never saw any of those pieces. But somehow after that moment, my brain created an image of what I assumed it looked like, like what I, what my brain assumed [00:29:00] happened, filled in those pieces, like trying to make sense of how we got from them leaving the house to this.

[00:29:10] Elliet- Elliet View: And so my brain just tried to fill in what happened in between. And still to this day, I have like this little video, I guess in my head of the gap that my brain filled in of what happened.

[00:29:23] Elliet- Maya View: I think a lot of people listening, you guys out there that listen to the show will connect with this because I connect with that Elliot 

[00:29:31] Elliet- Maya View: Because I'm never gonna know what took me from the last moment I saw my brother as spoke to him. To the point where I saw him in the hospital after, he was killed.

[00:29:42] Elliet- Maya View: So we do that, and I think that was quite advanced for you to do also at eight. And then also there is an imagination that happens with children, so it's a hybrid of that. But I think that's one of the reasons whenever I have a guest on that talks about losing a sibling as a child, [00:30:00] you grow up quite quickly because of this experience and having to make sense of this.

[00:30:05] Elliet- Maya View: Right? And so I wanted to point that out because at 30 years old I was doing that. And those of you who have lost at all different ages, we've all done that. But to have to do that at eight, that's a lot. And you grow up quite quickly, right? Yeah.

[00:30:19] Elliet- Elliet View: I really did. And it seems like it was that moment I remember standing there and putting those pieces together of just like filling in the gap of this must be what happened? And everything just fell from there. And I did grow up really quickly after that, especially seeing how everything was hitting my parents.

[00:30:43] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah.

[00:30:45] Elliet- Elliet View: It was so hard for them. Like, it was hard for me too. But somehow I don't know how I managed to come to this conclusion, but somehow I came to the conclusion that I needed to take care of them. [00:31:00] And so I tried to be as. Easygoing and manageable. I just, I was a good kid. I followed the rules.

[00:31:11] Elliet- Elliet View: I did everything I was supposed to do, I tried not to cause any problems for them. I grew up pretty quickly after that. It's funny, I remember a few weeks after I had gone back to school finally, and one of the nights after I'd gone back to school, we were getting back into the routine of having dinner together every night.

[00:31:34] Elliet- Elliet View: And I went to go get out the plates to set the table, which is one of the things that I did to get ready for dinner. And I grabbed four plates instead of three. And I remember setting them on the table and just like breaking down, crying. And then both of my parents were upset and crying and. Me realizing that I didn't want to be the thing that made anything harder for them.

[00:31:59] Elliet- Maya View: [00:32:00] You felt like that was on you, and it was just an honest thing that you were doing. 'cause you had done that for so many years and. Yeah. And I think that's like Elliot, don't you think that's a really tough thing, especially losing a sibling as a child? I think this happens too.

[00:32:16] Elliet- Maya View: It like when we lose someone in our, our sibling in our twenties and thirties, 'cause our parents are still super involved in our lives. Right. Obvi, in different ways, different capacities as we both know. But when you're a child though, like you don't wanna do anything, like you just shared, you don't wanna do anything to upset them.

[00:32:32] Elliet- Maya View: Like, you just wanna be like the perfect kid and just try to make up for the fact that your other sibling isn't there anymore. And that's so much pressure.

[00:32:40] Elliet- Elliet View: yeah. After seeing how just broken they were at the time. Like, I didn't wanna do anything to make that any worse than it already was,

[00:32:51] Elliet- Maya View: Of course not. Yeah.

[00:32:53] Elliet- Elliet View: I already had a lot of guilt. We talked about that a little bit before the show that I [00:33:00] had a lot of guilt already. I felt so horribly guilty even at the time that stuff was happening, when I felt that just ice drench cold feeling in my stomach at the time, I thought that was me feeling guilty for, being part of telling the boys to go away.

[00:33:18] Elliet- Elliet View: And so I've just held that over to feeling guilty and responsible for trying not to make things worse than it already was for my parents.

[00:33:29] Elliet- Maya View: So, yeah, that feeling that you had. Just continued to manifest Like the the guilt. Because yeah you shared it so perfectly earlier in the episode about how you had that feeling, how you had that feeling. And yes. Before we hit record, we started talking about your, the guilt.

[00:33:44] Elliet- Maya View: And this is something that comes up so much with you guys, with surviving siblings. So we're definitely gonna talk about this because this is something Elliot has experienced through your safe to say through your whole grief journey, right? Elliot, it's like, prior to even [00:34:00] losing Dylan, you were feeling that in that moment when you were really just being a kid, you were like, get away bro.

[00:34:06] Elliet- Maya View: Like, this is Barbie time. You know what I mean? Like you weren't just being a kid. But it's interesting how we are, like we talked about earlier, connected to our siblings. We feel a certain way and and you were so young and so there, it's interesting how that has continued on for you.

[00:34:24] Elliet- Maya View: Kind of also talking about guilt, but also talking about your next few years. Tell us a little bit about, 'cause you were eight, so how did the rest of your like childhood and middle school, high school, like you are, were now. Some people will say they were an only child afterwards and like, while I believe that's true, when you lose your only sibling, like you are always gonna have your sibling.

[00:34:48] Elliet- Maya View: So I'm like, you're always gonna have a sibling but you are living life physically, like I like to say as an only child. So what did that look like for you? Obviously very difficult, I'm sure because of your [00:35:00] parents and so lots of questions sprinkled in there, Elliot, but if you wanna share that with us and then how did your guilt, 'cause it's, it stayed with you.

[00:35:06] Elliet- Maya View: So share a little bit of that with us and then we'll get into some of these other topics. 'cause it's a lot to unpack.

[00:35:12] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah, talking about the only sibling thing. I still to this day hate when I meet new people and they're, one of their small talk questions is, oh, do you have any siblings or whatever. I still to this day hate getting that question. And it really depends on the person to how I'm gonna answer.

[00:35:30] Elliet- Elliet View: And I hate saying that I'm an only sibling or that I'm an only child. I hate saying that 'cause it feels like writing him out of history, writing him out of existence, and I don't wanna do that. But also, I don't. I don't owe that piece of my grief to random people that I meet. So it's always a weird and really challenging question that, is a normal question that people ask each other when you're getting to [00:36:00] know somebody.

[00:36:01] Elliet- Elliet View: But I absolutely dread meeting new people and getting that question.

[00:36:07] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah.

[00:36:08] Elliet- Elliet View: The next few years after that were incredibly challenging. Really held onto a lot of that guilt. If I had just been a better sibling and let him play with us, maybe this wouldn't have happened. And, with him not being around anymore when we talked about him, when somebody passes, you talk about all the idealized things how wonderful they were and everything.

[00:36:36] Elliet- Elliet View: But Dylan genuinely was just such a good person, such a good kid. Even for just six years old. 6-year-old kids, especially 6-year-old little boys in 2003 were agents of chaos. But Dylan really was not like that. He was just good. I remember being sick one time and him bringing me his blanket and stuffed animal to [00:37:00] try to make me feel better.

[00:37:01] Elliet- Elliet View: Like he was that kind of kid. So now that he had passed talking about what kind of person he was, it was even more amplified. And so when my parents and my family and we'd talk about him, they'd talk about how good of a little brother he was and all of that, and it always just made me feel sick because if I'd been a better sibling, if I'd been a sibling more like he had been.

[00:37:29] Elliet- Elliet View: Maybe we wouldn't be sitting there. So the guilt was really heavy for me, really up until just the last couple of years when I finally started dealing with it. But we were there for about a year after he passed in that town. And then my dad got an opportunity with his job that took us to a different state moving to a different state after having lost Dylan was really hard.

[00:37:55] Elliet- Elliet View: Going to a whole new place. We couldn't [00:38:00] go visit his grave. I couldn't go hang out with his friends 'cause I had started doing that. After everything mellowed out and went back to normal. I had started hanging out with some of his friends and we'd talk about him, stuff like that. But now I was in a place where nobody had known.

[00:38:20] Elliet- Elliet View: Him. Nobody had known any of us

[00:38:22] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah,

[00:38:23] Elliet- Elliet View: and the place we were in I did not fit in for reasons. So we lived there for two years and I had no friends for two years. Like my parents tried to throw a birthday party that first year we were there for me and nobody came.

[00:38:43] Elliet- Maya View: Wow.

[00:38:45] Elliet- Elliet View: it, we did not fit in. We did not fit in there. And so I was alone for two years by the second year we were there, I had managed to come by a couple of friends, which was good.

[00:38:58] Elliet- Elliet View: But that first year [00:39:00] was really awful.

[00:39:02] Elliet- Maya View: It sounds brutal. And when you go through something tough again as we talk about often on the show, like what, whatever your tough is that you're going through, it brings all of that grief and that loss back up to the surface, so it's just even more difficult. Yeah. 

[00:39:17] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah. And it was while we were there that I started noticing my parents fighting

[00:39:22] Elliet- Elliet View: And they were fighting about anything and everything, and they tried to make it so that I couldn't hear, they'd try to go out in the garage or whatever. I still heard a lot of it more than I ever should have, and that never got better.

[00:39:38] Elliet- Elliet View: From there we, so after two years we did move back to the town we'd been in before so I was in sixth grade when we moved back and my parents actually ended up getting divorced, like, or they separated about eight months after we moved back and they finalized their divorce however long later.

[00:39:57] Elliet- Elliet View: But

[00:39:58] Elliet- Elliet View: once they [00:40:00] separated, everything that was bad just got amplified to even worse. And a lot of it all came back to us having lost Dylan. My mom blamed my dad. My dad blamed himself. He still does.

[00:40:19] Elliet- Maya View: I was gonna ask you that, but I thought it would organically come up and it did Elliot, because I, if you guys remember going back to the to Elliot's story, your dad was the one on the four-wheeler with him, and so that can create a very difficult family dynamic when there is another family member involved in the accident.

[00:40:38] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah. Very difficult. I'm sure he blamed himself. I'm sure your mom blamed him, but at the end of the day, it was an honest accident. Yeah. 

[00:40:46] Elliet- Elliet View: He still to this day, blames himself and I don't know that anything I can say will ever change that. And, I hate that he blames himself

[00:40:57] Elliet- Maya View: Of course.

[00:40:58] Elliet- Elliet View: for an accident.

[00:40:59] Elliet- Maya View: Of course it's [00:41:00] hard 

[00:41:00] Elliet- Elliet View: He got injured too.

[00:41:01] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah. I was gonna ask you if, yeah, so he had an injury as well. And, but here's the thing that I've found in how, in telling these stories and sharing these stories and just listening to them, is that we wanna take all of this on as the sibling that's lost a sibling, and we wanna be there for our parents.

[00:41:20] Elliet- Maya View: And you're talking about that in your story, even at eight years old. It's like you wanted to just do thi but the reality is your parents. Your dad and your mom, they have to, like, your mom has to forgive your father and realize that, and they have to come together or they don't. Right. And your father has to forgive himself because it was an accident.

[00:41:42] Elliet- Maya View: And what's so difficult is people like you who are the surviving child, will often take this on as their responsibility. And I hear that in your story, and I think that's so difficult. But I think it's really great to hear that you're in a place now where you're like, I wish I could take that away for him, or, for a [00:42:00] mom.

[00:42:00] Elliet- Maya View: But reality is that's for them. They have to go on that journey. Just like you're on your journey of losing someone so significant at a young age.

[00:42:09] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah. And it, it did take me until just the last couple of years to actually sort out all of those things

[00:42:17] Elliet- Maya View: So tell us what, so tell us what changed Elliot in the past couple years, because it's been 22 years for you. And that's, we wanna talk about 20 years, 'cause that's a huge milestone. But first, tell us what happened in the past few years that has helped you on your grief journey. Because I noticed that when we connected and you wanted to come on the show, and I think that's gonna be so helpful for people to hear that.

[00:42:39] Elliet- Maya View: So, what's happened over the past couple years, because you've struggled with guilt, you struggled with wanting to be the perfect kid, you wanted to, so you're in a different place now, which I think is cool.

[00:42:49] Elliet- Elliet View: in a very different place now. Several things have changed, one of the things requires backing up just a little bit. I have not [00:43:00] spoken to my biological mother since I was a teenager. Well, we've had a couple of like text exchanges on occasion, but she and I are really, are not in contact.

[00:43:11] Elliet- Elliet View: Things had gotten pretty bad between she and I and she said some things that I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive. And some of the things that she had said to me, I really internalized and I struggled really heavily with depression, anxiety. I'm not sure if I can say this on here, the self harm and suicidal ideation.

[00:43:38] Elliet- Maya View: Course you can. Yeah.

[00:43:39] Elliet- Elliet View: I struggled with that really heavily for a long time and largely because of. Some of the things that she had said. And eventually I went through college and then I went to law school and I got a law degree and moved to Alaska which is 2,500 miles away from where I [00:44:00] grew up. So part of it was getting some space from some of those things.

[00:44:06] Elliet- Elliet View: And part of it I'd tried therapy several times over the years and never really found a therapist that I meshed with very well. I finally did coming up here and was able to deal with some of the trauma and stuff that was hanging on from my mother. So that was the first hurdle that I had to jump over was dealing with those feelings.

[00:44:36] Elliet- Elliet View: And then through working with my therapist, I actually ended up coming out as transgender. So I have changed a bit about how my life looks now. But I am more comfortable in my own skin and everything has settled a little bit for me. I, things are easier to [00:45:00] process in my own head 

[00:45:01] Elliet- Elliet View: I put it aside and put it in a little tiny box in the back of my head so that I could try to make my parents feel better. But once I wasn't living with my parents, once I wasn't even in the same state with my parents, I was able to kinda let go of that internalized obligation that I felt to them and let myself process those things in my own way. And it's made a huge difference. So it's, it's weird to be sitting here 22 years after losing my brother and saying, I'm just finally dealing with the grief and loss. But everybody's journey's a little different, 

[00:45:44] Elliet- Maya View: I think you said that perfectly, and thank you for being so raw and open and sharing your journey with us because. One, I wanna go back for a second, but yes, everyone's on their own grief timeline. Elliot, you're absolutely right. Like, 22 years, who [00:46:00] cares? Here's the thing I meet people sometimes.

[00:46:02] Elliet- Maya View: They're like, I don't think I ever processed the loss of this person. Insert this person, or whoever it is. And it's been decades for them. So I think we need to be proud of ourselves for being diligent and open to processing our grief, instead of judging how long it may take or if, it's a journey.

[00:46:22] Elliet- Maya View: So I think it's great what you've done and I think it's, one of the things that you were mentioning as you were sharing. So that's a lot, that's a lot that has happened in your life. Like moving to Alaska, coming out, doing different therapies. That's a lot. But I am so happy for you that you didn't give up on therapy because a lot of us have these experiences with like, we'll go in and we'll try to see a therapist.

[00:46:44] Elliet- Maya View: We're like it's not a fit. And like, we don't go back and like, I'm guilty. I did that in my past. But I talk about this pretty often about how therapy is like dating. Like, we, if you find the right therapist the first time you go into the office, it's like you marry your high school [00:47:00] sweetheart.

[00:47:00] Elliet- Maya View: Like that's like you. Got the jackpot, but like that doesn't really happen anymore. Like if that's you, that's cool, like good for you. But most of us don't marry our high school sweetheart anymore. So I use that analogy or metaphor because it is like that and you have to find the person that fits for you and like what a testament to therapy for you.

[00:47:18] Elliet- Maya View: Like you changed your environment, you kept trying to look for the right therapist. And I do think finding the right person that really gets us and that we click with and can be life changing. And I don't mean to say that. Like they tell us what we wanna hear, they tell us what we need to hear, and that's the right person.

[00:47:34] Elliet- Elliet View: She does not put up with, she does not put up with my bullshit.

[00:47:39] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah, but that's healthy, right? Like, and it's, for me, that's when I knew I found the right therapist too, Elliot, when it was someone that was like, I'm a little tough. And that was also, that's kind of me. I like to be challenged too. So, like I like someone who's gonna challenge me a little bit, but also come from a loving perspective, and be very logical and analytical.

[00:47:58] Elliet- Maya View: So it's about finding the right [00:48:00] person. And I think it's really amazing that you were able to do that. And I think it's a great message to everyone listening. Like, be diligent, be your own advocate, because there is somebody out there that's right for you on this journey, whether it's going to groups or going to therapy, or you just gotta find where you fit.

[00:48:18] Elliet- Maya View: And I think you made a huge change in your life by moving to Alaska. Like how cool is that? But it's a lot of different changes.

[00:48:26] Elliet- Elliet View: I met my now ex-husband in law school, and he's from Alaska. And so I followed him up here. And, initially I was not interested in continuing to do therapy. I had tried to see a therapist during law school, and when I was telling her about my past attempts, she told me that. I was lying about having attempted suicide.

[00:48:51] Elliet- Elliet View: And so I was not particularly inclined to continue trying to do therapy after that. 'cause that was, [00:49:00] that made me more suicidal, crazy how that works. When I got up here, I was married and I had a stepchild who looked at me as a parent and I had a job that I cared about. And three wonderful dogs that have my entire heart. And a piece of me wanted to be able to be around for that. And, having my stepchild especially was like. I couldn't let them down. And so I was like, fine, I will try it again. And convinced myself that it was worth trying just one more time 'cause I hadn't tried up here. And I did a whole bunch of research about the local therapists here and found somebody who was actually just a couple blocks away from where I was working at the time that her bio just sounded like she and I would be the kind of people that if we ran into each other just out in the world, that we'd end up being [00:50:00] friends.

[00:50:00] Elliet- Elliet View: And so I went and saw her and it's been fantastic.

[00:50:04] Elliet- Elliet View: The rest is history. I've been seeing her for three years now, a little over three years. And it seriously has made all the difference. I've known that I was trans since I was a kid, since before we lost Dylan. I've known since like kindergarten ish, but I had convinced myself I was never gonna come out partially because, I knew it would be hard on my family, and when I did come out, it has been hard on my family, like one of the things

[00:50:37] Elliet- Maya View: So, Elliot, you were telling me before we hit record, so I wanna make sure everyone else knows. You came out right before the 20 year anniversary of your brother's death, right? So it's like, that's a lot. Those are big milestones. That's a big milestone in your life. That's a big milestone in your grief journey.

[00:50:54] Elliet- Maya View: And that didn't pan out the way that I think all of us [00:51:00] would like for it to pan out for you. Right.

[00:51:02] Elliet- Elliet View: Yes, I came out to my parents, I'd come out to my friends several months before, but I came out to my parents a couple of months before the 20th anniversary of my brother's death. And my dad took it really hard. He felt like I was trying to replace my brother, which was really hard for me to hear.

[00:51:22] Elliet- Elliet View: And he told me that he couldn't handle me being around for the 20th anniversary. So I was supposed to have gone home to spend that with my dad. And he told me that he just couldn't handle it and that I should not come home for that. I don't know if it was that or if it was just the year milestone, but the 20 year anniversary hit hard.

[00:51:47] Elliet- Elliet View: I thought I'd hit all of those grief milestones by then. One year, five years, 10, 20 was something else. It's been whole lifetime, like a [00:52:00] whole, I have a stepchild that is younger than 20.

[00:52:04] Elliet- Elliet View: It's been, and my step kid is 16 now like two years from graduating high school.

[00:52:12] Elliet- Elliet View: And seeing my step kid growing up, especially has been a weird time marker in terms of my grief, with them getting older and getting close to graduating high school and stuff. Those are things that Dylan will never do.

[00:52:27] Elliet- Maya View: Of course the milestones. 

[00:52:29] Elliet- Elliet View: Getting married was really hard. 'cause he wasn't there. And when I was a little kid, I envisioned my wedding as a kid and envisioned him standing up with me at my wedding.

[00:52:41] Elliet- Maya View: of course. Me too. I totally get it. 

[00:52:43] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah. When you picture your wedding and when you're so close to your sibling like that and you picture them being part of that with you and my ex-husband was actually really great about it. We put up a picture of him and he'd lost his stepbrother.

[00:52:59] Elliet- Maya View: Oh,

[00:52:59] Elliet- Elliet View: so we [00:53:00] put both of our pictures of both of our brothers up and we lit a candle for each of them at the beginning of the ceremony.

[00:53:07] Elliet- Maya View: I love that.

[00:53:08] Elliet- Elliet View: we'd both lost brothers and wanted to take some time to acknowledge that.

[00:53:12] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah, I love that. We get questions a lot about that Elliot. We get questions a lot about that. Like, how do I incorporate my sibling into my wedding or the birth so my children or just different milestones. So I think that's really beautiful that you did pictures with candles. Just wanted to call that out.

[00:53:27] Elliet- Maya View: I think that's awesome. But it is hard 'cause you envision them being there for all these milestones in your life and then they're not there.

[00:53:34] Elliet- Elliet View: Yeah. I have a locket that has his picture that I it actually like sewn into the inside of my dress.

[00:53:41] Elliet- Maya View: That's beautiful. Yeah, so there's so like this is the thing, this is what I always tell people too. I'm like, it's so personal what you do too, right? Like we can give you all these great ideas and like what we did, but it's also personal and like that's what I love about sharing about this part of the grief journey too, is like [00:54:00] we can share our side of it, but it's also personal.

[00:54:03] Elliet- Maya View: So it might spark some ideas for those of you listening, like what you wanna do for those milestones. But it is very challenging.

[00:54:12] Elliet- Elliet View: Lot of the media and socially and stuff. We talk about those first five years so much and those first five years they are hard. Culturally we don't really talk about what happens after that. It's part of why this podcast is so awesome. You don't really talk about what happens after that in a social context.

[00:54:29] Elliet- Elliet View: And so at the time, like when I was doing things like getting married and graduating from college, graduating law school, passing the bar, when I was going through those big milestones in my life, part of me felt ridiculous for like wishing that he was there being a part of this. 'cause it felt like, culturally I should be over this by now.

[00:54:51] Elliet- Elliet View: I shouldn't still be dealing with this 20 years later. But through working with my therapist who is amazing, I've [00:55:00] been able to come to terms with that, that it's okay that I'm still dealing with this. 20 years later, he was a big part of my life and trying to pretend like that didn't happen is only gonna make things worse.

[00:55:15] Elliet- Elliet View: And so I have let myself acknowledge that he was a piece of my life and he'll always be a piece of my life, and that I don't have to write him out of it. So I've let myself do things like that and not feel silly about it. I always keep a picture of him on my desk at work, and there's a picture of him on my bedside table.

[00:55:36] Elliet- Elliet View: Always. They're just, they're always there. And when I have friends, people that are actually friends, I don't try to write him out when I talk about being a kid, if it's just somebody that I'm never gonna see again, there's no point in. Talking about it, but I don't try to hide that anymore.

[00:55:56] Elliet- Elliet View: There was a period in there when I was just, when I was in [00:56:00] college and stuff, where I was essentially talking about my childhood as if it had always been just me. 'cause it was easier that way rather than trying to dig up all of those feelings and seeing the looks on people's faces has always been one of the hardest things.

[00:56:15] Elliet- Elliet View: I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[00:56:18] Elliet- Elliet View: You get that look and that look does not change no matter how long ago it's been. 

[00:56:26] Elliet- Maya View: It will. Elliot, I will tell you, it does say a, the only thing that, as I have gotten further in the grief journey. It will tell you a lot about the person though. It will tell you so like as you get more comfortable. 'cause what you're describing Elliot is something that I've gone through in my journey too.

[00:56:42] Elliet- Maya View: It's like, in the beginning I was like, I didn't really know how to answer that, how many siblings you have and all of that. And then like, it's evolved through time and I share that very openly about how I answer it now. But you said it really wonderfully too. I do the same kind of thing. Like I talk about this so public publicly now.

[00:56:57] Elliet- Maya View: Like most people know my story, but [00:57:00] even so, even if they don't, like, I choose, I edit the way I wanna edit. If that energy feels good and it feels safe, then I'm gonna be open about it. But even if, like, even being as public as I am about this story, if it doesn't feel like a safe energy or this is not gonna be a connection and it doesn't matter.

[00:57:16] Elliet- Maya View: Work, personal, whatever, friendship. It doesn't matter. I get to choose. It's like those books where we used to choose our own story. Yeah. It's a piece of me. Exactly. I can choose what I wanna share. And you've done that and evolved with that too, but Yeah. But I've realized though, if I am feeling a little open that day and I just wanna share, it will really tell you a lot about the other person, how they react, the face, the expression, 

[00:57:41] Elliet- Elliet View: I'm just not in the mood to deal with the face. Like when I choose to share that with people, it's not because I want their pity or their sympathy or whatever.

[00:57:52] Elliet- Elliet View: It's, I'm sharing a piece of myself. It's just like, talking about, I don't know, the time I [00:58:00] cried in class in law school because my professor was terrible. It's. Sharing a piece of myself just like that

[00:58:06] Elliet- Elliet View: I don't share it to share or to get sympathy or pity. It's me sharing a piece of myself with them, and I've come to terms with being okay with that.

[00:58:19] Elliet- Elliet View: I used to feel really guarded about it, and I guess maybe ashamed because I so desperately didn't want people's pity that I always worried when I finally did share that with people, that they would feel like I was sharing it to get their pity.

[00:58:38] Elliet- Elliet View: And I eventually had to just put that aside. I can't take on how they feel about it, but for me, it's a personal thing. It's a piece of my soul that is never gonna go away. Dylan will always be a part of my life. He'll always be my brother, always be the best friend I've ever had.

[00:58:58] Elliet- Elliet View: And I'm okay sharing that with [00:59:00] people now. And it's up to them how they take it, 

[00:59:03] Elliet- Maya View: I love how you've had this realization that it's not your responsibility on how other people react to you sharing or what you'll share. It's your responsibility to. Love Dylan. Carry Dylan within you and make sure that you take care of yourself. And I think that's really wonderful because I think that's something that a lot of us bereaved siblings do is we are so concerned about everybody else that we just naturally take that on through life.

[00:59:28] Elliet- Maya View: And I think your story is a testament to that Elliot

[00:59:32] Elliet- Maya View: Elliot, let me ask you this before we kind of wrap and close out, where are you comfortable Because there's so much in your story. You've got 22 years of grief under your belt, which I know is like really tough.

[00:59:43] Elliet- Maya View: But there's a lot of people that will connect with this. They'll, they're gonna connect with your story about losing a brother suddenly to an accident as a child. They're gonna connect with your story about coming out as trans. They're gonna connect with your story about having complicated relationships with your family.

[00:59:59] Elliet- Maya View: [01:00:00] Where can people connect with you? Where are you comfortable? Social. Email, what's best for you, Elliot?

[01:00:04] Elliet- Elliet View: Email is totally fine. You have my email address. Email is totally fine. And I think people can send messages on like TikTok, right?

[01:00:13] Elliet- Maya View: They can, what's your TikTok handle?

[01:00:14] Elliet- Elliet View: It's at ling 18. Yes, that's correct.

[01:00:19] Elliet- Maya View: Okay, perfect. Okay. So we'll put your email and your TikTok handle in the show notes so folks can reach out to you, because again, you have so many 22 years into this, so many aspects of your sibling loss journey and just your personal journey that I think many of our listeners will connect with.

[01:00:36] Elliet- Maya View: So, Elliot, any last pieces of advice that you wanna give in your episode? Again, you've been on this journey longer than me, so I appreciate you sharing where you've been. And I'm just so happy for you that you found this incredible therapist and it sounds like. You've had this like, amazing renewal of life over these past three years.

[01:00:58] Elliet- Maya View: So any last pieces of wisdom [01:01:00] you wanna give our incredible siblings that Listen,

[01:01:02] Elliet- Elliet View: Biggest thing I've learned over 22 years

[01:01:06] Elliet- Elliet View: is. Our society tries to tell us, that time heals all things. And that gives us the impression that over time you'll stop feeling these things. I have learned that grief is more like a tennis ball in a jar. Your tennis ball is your grief and your jar is your ability to handle it.

[01:01:29] Elliet- Elliet View: And when you first start out those first few years, man, maybe you can't even force that ball into the jar. But then as time goes on, as you learn things, as you process, as you hit those milestones, your jar gets a little bigger. Your ball is never gonna turn into a golf ball or a ping pong ball. It's never gonna change.

[01:01:50] Elliet- Elliet View: It's still gonna be a tennis ball, but your ability to handle it and your ability to like recognize it and not have it completely ruin your [01:02:00] day. That changes.

[01:02:01] Elliet- Maya View: Yeah, I think that's great advice. And you are using a metaphor that I really love, and then you like took it and made it even more your own. And I love that because I think, I love a visual Elliot, so I agree. Because a lot of people will say it doesn't get easier or it does get easier, but like the way that you're conveying it, it gets it.

[01:02:21] Elliet- Maya View: It's not that it gets easier or doesn't get easier. It gets easier because of your ability. I love that. Elliot, thank you so much for being on the show

[01:02:29] Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings Podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

[01:02:54] And don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms. We're on Instagram, [01:03:00] Twitter, and TikTok at Surviving Siblings Podcast. All links can be found in the show notes, so be sure to check those out too. Thank you again for the support. Until the next episode, keep on surviving my surviving siblings.