Christine Bartlett - Losing the Mental Health Battle

[00:00:00] Maya: Welcome to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host, Maya Roffler. As a surviving sibling myself, I. I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November, 2016, and after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story.

[00:00:31] And now it's your turn to share your stories. Please note that this episode contains depictions and stories of siblings lost by homicide, suicide. And or domestic violence. Some people may find these stories activating, triggering, and or disturbing. Please see our show notes for additional resources and to understand the full content of the episode.

[00:00:59] Welcome back to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. Today I have Christine Bartlett with me. Christine has a really incredible story she's willing to share with us, and I am excited to dive into it. Her vulnerability is already so inspiring to me. Christine, welcome to the show.

[00:01:18] Christine: Thank you for having me. I feel like it's a topic that I don't get to talk about a lot, just because like we talked about before, just the burden that you don't wanna put on other people when you're talking about your grief. Um, so it's just nice have an open forum and especially on such an important topic of suicide.

[00:01:34] So,

[00:01:35] Maya: Yes, I appreciate you being so open and wanting to share your brother Peter's story today and the fact that he did die by suicide. So I wanna dive right in. Christine, if you could kind of just start out by sharing a little bit about the background, Peter's background, your background, your family dynamic, and kind of paint a picture for us and we'll, we'll go through the story.

[00:01:57] Christine: Okay. Um, so my brother was three years younger, Peter, and we lived a relatively normal childhood. Grew up with the whole white picket fence. My dad was a cop, my mom was a nurse. Um, so we shared a room together for about 10 years. So we were just always very close growing up. But I think from a young age, Peter just seemed to struggle, like in school.

[00:02:22] Um, he was diagnosed with learning disabilities from a young age and behavioral stuff. Um, just constantly having like outbursts in class and different things like that. So I don't think I realized at the time, like for me, it just kind of seemed like he was using these outbursts to get away with things and stuff like that.

[00:02:41] And my parents always kind of tiptoed around him. And I think it was difficult for my mom, my dad, to get on the same page with how they wanted to treat him. Um, I mean, he was like on and off medications from a young age just with like being diagnosed with a d h, ADHD and different things like that. But I think my dad was very anti meds.

[00:02:59] My mom wasn't, my mom tried therapy and my dad was on board with that, but I think that kind of caused a little bit of a rift too, just how he wanted to kind of go about everything. Um, but I think school really was just like where it kind of started with him. He, it was just very hard for him. And then the outburst led to him being bullied in school.

[00:03:20] Um, and I think just as he got older it turned more from like his learning disabilities and his, I think that just really hurt his self-esteem in a lot of ways. And he just carried that into adulthood. And then I think just as he was in adulthood, it turned more into depression and later on, more thoughts of suicide too.

[00:03:43] So,

[00:03:43] Maya: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. You know, I'm, I'm already connecting with, and I'm sure a lot of people as well, connecting with your story, Christine, because my parents, although not together and have been divorced for a very long time and are remarried to other people, um, had different views on, on helping my brother too.

[00:04:02] Um, you know, my mother was not into medication. My dad was kind of like, you know, didn't really have a huge opinion about it. So, um, I. That when you said that right away. And our we're three years apart too. So yeah, I connect with that as well. But yeah, it's, it's interesting when you look back and, and you watch those things and you're like, Hmm.

[00:04:22] Now this is all kind of piecing together. So did Peter, did he go off to, did he graduate high school, go off to college? Kind of walk us through his adult years and, and what transpired next for him?

[00:04:35] Christine: Um, so he was in like my, the same school that I went to up until about middle school. And then he ended up going to this more, I think it was just a school that was more kind of specified for his needs at that time. Um, so that's where he ended up doing eighth grade and then he did high school with that and he did, um, it's called like a BOCES program.

[00:04:55] So half the day he was doing like carpentry and like more hands-on stuff, which he seemed to enjoy. He ended up graduating high school. Um, and then I think he tried college for like a class or two, but it just wasn't for him. Um, but then he ended up, so in 2010, that was the year he graduated. Um, my dad ended up passing away suddenly.

[00:05:19] So I think that kind of just really, at first I think it helped for whatever reason he, it just like kind of kick started him and. A more positive direction. He had lost a lot of weight and like it just built his confidence up. He had a lot of friends at that time, he had a girlfriend. Um, but then I think the more he kind of gained those things, the more he realized he had to lose.

[00:05:43] So it was like the second that like anything happened with his girlfriend or anything happened with his friends, it just kind of added on to that depression, I feel like. Um, and I think it also, it was like he had all these things all of a sudden and his dad wasn't there to see them, whereas like him and my dad's relationship was not a bad one growing up, but they did have their issues.

[00:06:04] And obviously anytime you lose someone, you're constantly just thinking about the, why did I do that? Or like, the stupid little fights that you might've had. So I think that was always weighing heavily on him, just being the only man in his life. And um, so I think that was like the first real big hit for him that kind of started to set him on this struggle. More so with the depression. Um,

[00:06:28] Maya: That's huge. I mean, oh, I'm so sorry. You guys lost your father. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's, I mean, as we know, right? As we all know, all of you listening too, loss changes you, right? And it changes a lot of things. It changes your perception, it changes your emotions, it changes, I mean, just all of the above, right?

[00:06:47] Like e all of the above. So I could see how, you know, he's gone through a lot already in school and then, you know, he feels like he's kind of getting his footing and, you know, you guys lose your father, and then it kind of goes from there. So what happened next for him? Was he, was he working? What was he doing, um, after school?

[00:07:10] Christine: Um, so right after, right before my dad had passed, he had actually helped him get a job. So he was working at the supermarket, um, close by. My brother didn't have his license at the time, so it was like walkable. Um, after my dad passed, obviously my brother wanted to kind of hang on to that job, um, which he did for a while, but he was always working.

[00:07:30] He was in and out of jobs, like just more like, um, he worked in the parking lots, like doing carts and stuff like that. Like nothing career wise yet. Like he hadn't found what he really wanted to do with his life, but, um, he did always manage to at least have a job, either like working at an A and p or a ShopRite or something like that.

[00:07:50] So he did that for a while. Um, and then he ended up getting this other girlfriend who he was with when he passed too. So they were together for about like three, maybe four years. Um, and I feel like that's kind of when, and nothing to do with her, but just like those three, four years when he had this like serious relationship was kind of like where I remember the most, like.

[00:08:16] Um, suicide scares and depression and things like that, kind of getting ahead. And I really just think it was because he was very in love with her and it was just this big thing that his happiness all of a sudden was very dependent on her.

[00:08:31] Maya: Wow, that's, yeah, so it was a very tumultuous period and an intense period for him because he was experiencing. I guess a love that he really hadn't experienced before.

[00:08:42] Christine: yeah. So, and in the meantime too, my, um, my mom was diagnosed with cancer around, I think it was 2015, so I think that also just added, I think he just had a lot of stuff, like a lot of hardships that had happened to him. And obviously they had happened to me as well, but I think I just luckily had better coping skills and I didn't realize how much he was struggling with all of that stuff.

[00:09:05] I did to a point, but it was almost more frustrating to me at times because he would just not show up to things or like, I just felt like I was always left to kind of pick up the pieces. So it was almost hard for me at times to really recognize that it was really just his depression and not just him, like ignoring all of his responsibilities and putting them on me because it was like every chemo appointment, it was always me taking my mom, which was fine, but it was like, there was just very little help with that.

[00:09:33] And again, we, again, we were both very close still and we lived in very close proximity to my mom. He still lives with her at the time, and I lived about 10, 15 minutes, so it wasn't like we couldn't have shared the responsibilities, but um, I think that was something that was just hard on me at the time, just not realizing that Realiz, the reason that he wasn't helping as much was probably just that lack of coping and that lack of just caring about really anything at that time. So,

[00:10:03] Maya: I mean, that's a whole lot to, to carry and I can connect with that too because. My, my brother struggled as well as I shared very openly with a lot of different things, mental health, drugs, alcohol, things like that, and was very unpredictable. And when you are the oldest, like we are, you know, a lot of things fall to you, especially when there's hardship in the family.

[00:10:26] So, and that's a lot, you know, you guys lost your father, your mother's diagnosed with cancer. Like this is a lot that is going on and I can connect with you as I'm sure a lot of, a lot of people listening can as well, because you know, when you are the one that's taking on a lot of stuff or taking responsibility and you have a sibling that isn't, and you don't quite have it all pieced together as to why, like there can be resentment a little bit, right?

[00:10:53] Like, you're like, why am I the one doing? I'm sure you felt that right, Christie.

[00:10:56] Christine: yeah. And I obviously after his passing have regretted it a little bit, but. Um, just at the time, it's just hard to kind of see past that. I mean, there was when, um, our grandmother had actually passed away in 2016, so he could not handle that at all. Like didn't end up and he was very close to her, but he couldn't even go to the funeral.

[00:11:17] So it was things like that that made it a little bit hard to empathize with him because it was just hard to see how you could be in that big of a hole yet. Like he ended up going with his girlfriend instead. So for me it was like, you can do these, these things for your girlfriend, but then when it comes to your family you can't.

[00:11:36] But I mean, looking back now, I think it was more just he just couldn't handle another loss in his life and he just needed to kind of ignore it to kind of get through his days. And, um, I mean, I'm okay with it now, but obviously at the time when you're going through things like.

[00:11:56] Maya: Oh, absolutely. I, I, again, I relate to this and yeah, and then you look back and you're like, okay. Like, it's like piecing puzzle pieces together, you know, you're like, oh, that's why. And that, you know, you're kind of filling in the blanks. There was Christine, was he, was Peter ever diagnosed officially or kind of tell us a little bit about the actual mental health.

[00:12:19] 'cause you, you've said a couple times about his depression, so I, he was obviously battling depression and battling a lot and also there was a lot going on in your family, A lot of loss, and that's heavy. So, te tell us a little bit about that mental health aspect of it, because it does, does sound like you've referred to that a couple times and would love for you to share that with us.

[00:12:39] Christine: yeah. Um, so he, it took a very long time for him to be diagnosed with anything. Um, and I don't think I had said this yet, but his eventual suicide was not, Something that surprised us by any means, which I know most people are like, we had no idea. We didn't see it coming. Whereas for us, unfortunately, it was a call that I dreaded every day for a few years just because of how things kind of the road it was going down.

[00:13:07] Um, but he had a few suicide attempts that we knew about and a few that I'm sure we didn't. But his one, one prior to the one that he ended up passing from, um, he ended up driving to this bridge and it was actually my mom's like first day of restarting chemo. And I think he just wasn't really ready to tell us, but we knew he was.

[00:13:33] We just knew something was going on. Um, and he was threatening to jump from the bridge. He thankfully didn't end up doing that. He ended up like kind of going missing for like a day or two where he just wouldn't tell us where he was. But when he came home, we like had a series sit down with him and he agreed to go to this like half day program.

[00:13:53] At least he didn't ever wanna be committed anywhere. Um, but he agreed to go to this like half day program, which he did for a few weeks. Um, and it was in that program that he sat in with a few different, like, types of groups. And he sat in with this bipolar group and he just felt like everything was kind of matching with how he was feeling.

[00:14:13] And he ended up calling my mom and I and was like, I, I think this is what's wrong with me. Like, which he was never, he had been seeing a therapist and stuff like that before, but no one had ever said, like, gave him a name to what he was feeling. Um, so it wasn't official diagnosis, but he felt like he was bipolar, which I mean, when we look into it too, we can definitely see like his high of highs and his low of lows and just how, um, drastic things can be from day to day with him.

[00:14:39] So I think that was the first time where he really felt like he was. What was happening a little bit more in his mind,

[00:14:50] Maya: Yeah, that ma, I mean, that makes sense that he felt understood, seen, and he could actually connect and not feel like this is only happening to me. Right. This is a part of his mental health journey. I, I had no idea we had so much in common, Christine, although we lost our brothers differently and you know, obviously have some, you know, three years and all of that.

[00:15:12] But my brother was never officially diagnosed bipolar, but hindsight's 2020, that's a phrase for a reason. And I look back on his behavior. And it was extreme. It was always very extreme. It was like, you know, the devastated worlds. My brother was more on the high side, like there was a lot of highs, but when he came crashing down, oh honey, it was not pretty.

[00:15:39] It was not pretty, you know? Um, do you kind of reflect back and, and see that, or, or tell us a little bit more about Peter and like, was he, he'd kind of get into depression or what, what was kind of his pattern?

[00:15:55] Christine: Um, yeah, he definitely was always one extreme or the other. I mean, there were some days where we would be hanging out, everything would be good, and then immediately the next morning he wouldn't get outta bed. Um, but again, I, it, it seemed like once he had different things to hold onto that his happiness was more just dependent on how his relationships were and different things like that.

[00:16:21] Um, but he did end up going on medication after this. He was in this program, which seemed to help a little bit, but, um, Of course, like along the ti like right around the time that he ended up in this program, he ended up getting this job. So then it was kind of a decision of whether or not he was gonna take the job or stay in the program.

[00:16:44] 'cause it was a half day program, so there was no way to do both. And I remember I was the one that like went to the meeting with them and kind of talked to the guy basically that would let him be released from the program. I mean, he could have walked obviously, but, um, and we kind of just thought like, I mean I would've preferred he stayed I think a little bit longer, but I also wanted him to have a job and something more realistic that's like gonna sustain him and something that he could do every day.

[00:17:09] 'cause I feel like that was a big part of it. Like just him, like getting up every day and being forced to like get out of the house and actually wanting to do something. Um, so he ended up leaving the program and, um, taking this job, which I don't know if that was the right decision or not, but he did end up having this job for about like six months too.

[00:17:29] So, and this was about. This program was probably about like eight months before he ended up passing. So,

[00:17:37] Maya: Mm-hmm. So when he, so he took this new job, he's, was he living with his girlfriend? What was the, what was the dynamic there?

[00:17:46] Christine: so he ended up moving, I'm trying to remember, um, he was probably started dating her around like 20 15, 20 16. He passed in 2018. So at some point he did move down to, um, she lived in Pennsylvania. They had met online. Um, but they were like, they would visit each other often. So then he ended up moving down there, which I think was also a hard decision.

[00:18:10] It kind of just isolated him. Like obviously me and my mom weren't there anymore. He did have some friends up here still, so it was a very tough decision, but I think he just wanted to try it. He had gotten a job down there at that time, um, but then ended up having a suicide attempt there. So this. Um, he had called us one day and said that he had taken a bunch of pills and drank a bunch of vodka.

[00:18:36] He wouldn't tell us where he was, so we ended up calling the cops. We were all the way in New York and he was in Pennsylvania, so we were trying to get the cops to go there. So it was just like hours of panic, obviously. Um, they ended up finding, somehow we figured out maybe he was in the attic still and like locked himself in there.

[00:18:52] So they ended up finding him and bringing him to the hospital up in wherever, in Pennsylvania. Um, so me and my mom drove there at like 11 o'clock at night and I, looking back now, I like, feel bad how I was, I was obviously devastated when it was happening. I really, like, he basically said his goodbyes on the phone to us.

[00:19:13] Um, so I really thought that that could be it. But then immediately, once I knew he was okay and us driving up there and then seeing him and he was just not remorseful at all, I think he was just not reacting the way that I wanted him to. And then it just kind of made me almost more angry, like, how could you do this to us, kind of thing.

[00:19:31] Which I, again, now knowing what happened, I feel bad and regret feeling that way, but I think in the moment when you have like so many, like he just would always threaten suicide. So for me it never felt real. 'cause he had said it so many times and it would just always be at the right moment where it would be like to get out of something or you know, just, it just didn't feel like, obviously I was always scared that it could happen, but his timing sometimes almost seemed manipulative.

[00:20:05] So it always just, Once I knew he was okay, then I would just immediately get angry and be like, why? Like, why can't we just get help? Because my mom and I were always on board to get him help with whatever he needed. Like my mom would always said she would pay for anything or whatever he wanted, but it's just, again, I realize more now if you can't help someone that doesn't want the help.

[00:20:27] And he needed to get to that point to want the help. And unfortunately, he just really was never there. Um, but anyway, after that happened, my mom was like, you need to come home. And so he ended up leaving that apartment and was living home for, I think that was, I don't know. My timing is off, but he was living home for, for a while before he passed.

[00:20:50] Um, and then ended up working like around here, but so,

[00:20:54] Maya: Thank again, thank you for sharing so much and so vulnerably. And you're absolutely right. I mean, you can't help someone who does not want help, and that's a really tough part of, I think, so many of our stories, regardless of how we've lost our siblings. Right. Um, there's a lot of, a lot of us out here that have tried to help our siblings in different ways and I think it's so frustrating because you can see a path for them, right?

[00:21:26] Or you can see like a life for them, or you can see how you can help them, but they have to want it. And that's so tough because just, and just you sharing too, where you're like, I feel bad, but then when I look, that's a struggle. And that's something I hear a lot too, Christine, is, you know, after, you know, losing your sibling, Especially by, by suicide, which I know we're, we're, we're leading up to that.

[00:21:51] And you're, you're amazing to share this with us and I appreciate it. But, you know, I think there's so many, for a lot of siblings out there that lose a sibling by suicide, there's so many unanswered questions and I think that's really difficult. And there's also, uh, typically mental health is involved, right?

[00:22:12] And, um, I've yet to hear of a story where it's not, if there's one, share it with me guys, but it, this is why we wanna talk about this and bring light to this and bring awareness to this because these are difficult stories and difficult losses that we can help make an impact and potentially change for the future.

[00:22:33] I mean, that would be my hope, right? So it's really frustrating when you're on the other side and you're, you can see how you could help you brother or your sister, and they just are not there and they're not receiving it.

[00:22:45] Christine: Yeah.

[00:22:47] Maya: It is very difficult. Um, like I told you before we hit record, I, I was gonna share a little bit of my brother.

[00:22:54] I, I don't know everything a as well that my brother dealt with mental health wise. He, he struggled his whole life too. He's self-medicated with drugs and alcohol, as I've shared. And I have been able to connect with people who have lost a sibling by suicide because of a couple reasons. But one reason is because my brother did, did attempt when he was 17.

[00:23:19] And so my heart really goes out to all of you guys. My brother called me, I was in college, we're three years apart, so I was in college, right? I'm of course 20 and drinking and partying and doing college things, right? And he called me and he was out of his mind. I don't know what he took, but a bunch of stuff and told me, Goodbye.

[00:23:42] Like he was like, I love you so much, and it was very ominous. So I can connect with getting that kind of call. I can't even imagine going through it multiple times. Like that was the scariest moment prior to, you know, other things happening and losing my brother and other things. Um, so scary. I was frantically calling my mother, you know, her boyfriend at the time.

[00:24:04] It was scary and they ended up finding him in the bathtub. So it was, it was very scary. Christine. So again, my heart goes out to you and, and everybody listening that's lost a sibling by suicide or siblings, god forbid. Um, one of the scariest calls I've ever gotten, I'm like my 17 year old brother saying goodbye to me.

[00:24:26] What are you talking about? Like, how much weeded did you smoke or something? You know, like, what are you talking about? You don't want to believe it's real and it. Thank God they went home, um, because the entire house had had flooded and he was in the bathtub. So, um, it's, it's very intense. This is a very intense topic.

[00:24:45] So tell us a little bit more about what kind of, what happened next. So he came home, which love your mama. Yes. She was pulling a mama bear, bringing a mom. It's time to come back home. And what leads up to his passing on May 8th? What, what leads up to that? What goes on next for him?

[00:25:08] Christine: Um, so he had, now that I'm thinking about timeline wise, I think he had come home, it was like probably the summer before that bridge attempt. So he had come home, he was living in Pennsylvania, came home maybe like August, I think that had happened around, and then he had that bridge attempt again in October.

[00:25:27] So then he had gone to that program and got a job around here at home. Um, and then he seemed to be doing okay, but again, like around the time of that bridge attempt in October, he had broken up with his girlfriend. So then when he had gotten that job, he also had gotten back together with his girlfriend.

[00:25:44] So we didn't know, like is it the program that helped the medications, the job, or just the fact that obviously he's back with his girlfriend. Um, and he was doing all right. And then the next year it was kind of just the same stuff. It was just constant. Like, like some days he was okay, some days he was not okay.

[00:26:05] Um, and then we ended up actually getting, I got a call in April, so like almost exactly a month before he passed. And he told me that I was living again about like 10, 15 minutes away. Um, but he called me and said,

[00:26:24] Like he was walking, he was gonna go on the train tracks. And so I like immediately like, started speeding home. I had like told my mom, but there wasn't really much he could do at that time anyway, so I came home and I was trying to find him and I, every time that this had happened where I'd gotten calls in the past, my friends were always like, why don't you just call the cops?

[00:26:44] But for me, I just didn't wanna, like, I didn't want to call the cops and I knew once I called the cops, my brother would stop calling me because I think he just did not want the cops to get involved at all. And he felt comfortable enough to call me, which I appreciated, even though it was very traumatizing every time I got the call.

[00:27:02] But, um, I, I was happy that at least he felt comfortable enough to call me and kind of like vent out his feelings. And usually I was able to get those phone calls to go a different way. So like, he would call, he would cry. I would at least try and talk him out of it. Or if I could find him, I would.

[00:27:19] Obviously be there. Um, but this call just felt different and I just didn't, I didn't know if I was gonna be, I couldn't find him at the time, so I was just like driving around. He just seemed like very out of it. He wasn't a drinker at all, but this, that past year, he was like, I feel like just using it to almost try and kill himself at those times too.

[00:27:39] Um, but he sounded like he had drank. He just, I couldn't find him. So I had told my mom to call the cops. Um, so we had the cops looking for him in the neighborhood and I ended up finding him. So of course then I regretted calling the cops, but I found him, he was willing to get into my car. He wasn't on the train tracks, but very close to it.

[00:27:57] Um, and he came back home. But then the cops, obviously since we called them, ended up coming and they ended up taking him in, which was a whole scene in itself. 'cause my brother was not willing to go. They ended up having to tase him and stuff, which was just awful to see. I felt.

[00:28:14] Maya: Wow.

[00:28:15] Christine: I just, I felt like at that point my brother just felt like I betrayed him, which I felt so bad.

[00:28:21] But I think after that he realized why I did it. But obviously in the moment he was just like, how could you guys call the cops and stuff? Um, but we ended up going to the hospital that night. I went with him and they let him go. They had him handcuffed there.

[00:28:37] Maya: Wait, what? They didn't do a 72 hour hold. They let him go.

[00:28:40] Christine: no, yeah. Which to this day still makes me so angry.

[00:28:45] But we had a psychiatrist came and talk. I wasn't allowed there when the psychiatrist or whoever talked to them. Um, but they talked to him and he did his like normal manipulative, like, this is how I'm gonna get out of it kind of ways. He said, I'll go to this program, I'll do this. He had to fill out this whole like coping mechanism sheet, which I mean was so sad to see because I'm like, clearly he's not coping if I just found him on the train tracks.

[00:29:09] But, Um, he just had to, the psychiatrist talked to me and asked my opinion. I said, I don't think he's safe to go home. I said, this is like not the first time. It's not the second time. And I just think that there needs to be a plan in place or something to, before we let him go back home. But I think because he was over 18 and all that, it's really, I don't know.

[00:29:32] I don't understand how any of it works and it, it still bothers me to this day. But he agreed just verbally that he would do this, that same program he did in October and they let him walk out the doors without anything. And he went back home and he told me he was gonna go to the program the next day and then didn't go.

[00:29:51] And I was looking back at texts today, I just trying to refresh my memory of things. And, um, I had texted him how hurt I was. 'cause I was like, I, you just, you put us through all this stuff and we're obviously there for you no matter what, but there's only so much that. We can do without you doing anything yourself too.

[00:30:11] So, and he had just said that he doesn't wanna do the program. It didn't really help him. He wants to do all this other stuff and he just wants, like, us to be willing to, you know, be on board with whatever he wants you to help himself. But I was like, actions speak louder than words. You're not like, at this point we're just, we're not doing anything.

[00:30:30] It's the same thing every, every day. It's just wondering like when we're gonna get the call. And it sounds terrible to say, but, um, yeah. So then he didn't, um, he didn't end up going back to the program and, yeah. So,

[00:30:45] Maya: It doesn't sound terrible at all. Christine, I, I think. You know, when you're constantly living, waiting for the call, I mean, that's literally my first episode on this entire show is the call. And that's a form of anticipatory grief, right? Like, you know, and loss like you are basically, you know, and, and there's different forms of this, but for, for you guys, you know, every time you get a call from him, it's like, we're waiting for the call.

[00:31:16] You're on edge all the time. And that's very difficult. That's very difficult. And that is a form of anticipatory grief, which I'm sure you know, and you lived it, you're living it. Um, and that, that takes a toll on you. It takes a toll on you mentally, emotionally, physically. And, um, I think a lot of people listening to this can relate to that.

[00:31:38] It, you know, it's not if, if you've lost someone by suicide, it can be that way, but it can be for people that are watching their, um, Their sibling. Go through an addiction, go through mental health, go through, you know, a, a disease, fill in the blank. But anticipatory grief is, it's real. You lived it, you, you're, you know, you went through it, and that's very difficult.

[00:32:02] And when you're trying to help someone and they're just, I'm still blown away that they didn't keep him.

[00:32:08] Christine: Yeah,

[00:32:09] Maya: I can't believe they just let him go, because typically it's a 72 hour hold. But to your point, some people know how to manipulate and get out of these, you know, supposed regulations that are in place for mental health, which is completely broken in our country.

[00:32:25] But we'll get to that. But, yes, yes. So, Peter's out and saying he's gonna get help, but clearly doesn't. How does this lead up to back at the bridge again? This is, this is a tough, tough time. Yeah.

[00:32:42] Christine: Um, so I think the whole month was rough after that, but I knew in my heart if he was ever going to try again. He was not going to let me know at that point because he wasn't gonna go back to, he just knew that we would try and stop it again, which I think before, like we kind of let him like. We never called the cops or did anything.

[00:33:05] So I knew once I made that call that that was it for us. Like it was either gonna happen or it wasn't gonna happen, but we weren't going to know before and have that like call that we would usually get prior, at least to try and talk him out of it. Um, so it, I don't really remember how he was like that whole month.

[00:33:25] I don't remember it being great. Um, but the week before it happened, I was on vacation from work. We had just gotten a puppy. My mom, our dog had passed like two weeks before and my mom randomly got a puppy. So me and my brother spent like the entire week with her. I spent the entire week with him. Like we just were able to hang out.

[00:33:45] We hung out the whole day before, like I was with him all day. We got lunch, um, and then everything seemed okay and he kicked me out of his room like he normally did, like that night, like, he was like, you're annoying. So I like went back to my apartment. And then the next morning I came back to my mom's house to like see the puppy and I had told him I was there, so he came outside with me for a little bit and he just seemed off, but like, not more off than other days, but definitely just seemed a little down.

[00:34:16] Um, but he hung out with me for a little bit. He was talking to me and then he went back in the house and I heard him get into a fight with his girlfriend. So that obviously worried me. 'cause anytime, like things were off with that, it just seemed like the world was just not good at the time. So, um, I heard him get into the fight and then he ended up leaving and I thought he, he liked to walk everywhere, but at this time he did have his license.

[00:34:43] So I thought he had walked and usually he would just like walk to the grocery store. So I called him and I was like, oh, where are you? And he said he was going to the grocery store. And again, he seemed, he actually didn't seem as off on the phone. He seemed a little bit more. Now that I'm looking back, I think he just seemed content because I think he had his intentions in his head.

[00:35:05] But, um, I was like, oh, can do you mind just picking me off this like juice that I wanted? And he said, sure. Like, I'll get it now. He acted like he was at the grocery store at the time, and I was like, all right, cool. I like sent him a picture of the juice I wanted and I said, is everything okay with you and his girlfriend?

[00:35:24] And he said, yeah, everything's fine. And I was like, fine. Like, are you okay? And he said, yeah. So that was it. And then that was at like maybe four 30 and like an hour later I was still at my mom's. And I saw, he posted on Facebook a status saying I'm no one's favorite, which just like threw me a little bit.

[00:35:45] I just didn't have a good feeling in my stomach. I tried calling him, he didn't answer. Um, I called him like multiple, multiple times. I was messaging him on Facebook, texting him, and just nothing. I was like, if you just let me know, you're like, you're okay. I swear I will stop bothering you,

[00:36:01] Maya: Yeah. You had, uh, sister's intuition was kicking in here for sure. Yep.

[00:36:06] Christine: So, and then I even started texting one of my friends and I was like, I just feel like something's off. Like obviously I've gotten this feeling before, but it just seems like, like something's wrong. Um, like I'm terrified that a cop is gonna show up at my door right now. So my mom was still at work, so I had texted my friend that I was like, I need to leave.

[00:36:27] I think a, I just feel like a cop is gonna show up. And she's like, what? Like, I'm sure you know, he's okay. Just wait until you hear from him, whatever. So I went back to my apartment and at that point we still hadn't heard from them, and my mom had been at work, so she didn't know that anything was wrong.

[00:36:41] So, When she got home and saw he wasn't there, she started freaking out. And um, I was like, I tried calling him, but he honestly, he seemed like he was okay when he, when I talked to him at least. Um, so then I started calling him again and his phone was like, it wasn't even ringing anymore. So I had texted my friend saying, I'm nervous his phone is off.

[00:37:07] And she was like, well, that's a good thing. At least he shut it off. And I said, yeah, or he jumped off a bridge.

[00:37:14] Maya: Wow.

[00:37:14] Christine: And so I ended up, my mom was like, you need to get home. Like, I need you at least here until he comes home. So I was like, that's fine. So I went to her house, but as I was driving, um, she called me and she said, where are you?

[00:37:31] And I said, I'm on my way, like I said, and she said, you need to get here now. And I said, I am almost there. I was literally like five minutes from my house. And I was like, is everything okay? And I think she was trying not to tell me, obviously while I was driving, but she was also by herself and she just screamed, he's dead.

[00:37:50] And I honestly blacked out after that. I don't even remember really driving home. I ended up with a flat tire, so I can only imagine what those, like three minutes drive. I was very close to my house. But, um, I spent home and when I got home, the, the sheriff was there and he had told us that he jumped. And I, I mean the only thing that we're grateful for is that they found him so quickly.

[00:38:14] Someone had actually seen him jump. So they were able to find him and recover him rather quickly. So it wasn't like we had days, you know, waiting, um, to see like even what happened. We would've, we wouldn't have known at all like where he was. So, I mean, that part I guess was good. But um, yeah, it was just, It was a lot.

[00:38:37] Maya: a complete blur at that point. Yeah. I mean, so you, you definitely got a call that you finally got the final call, which is in your situation is so devastating. I can understand. Blacking out. I mean, you're driving and then you get this news like it's, your story is really interesting and just blows me away because your intuition.

[00:39:01] So strong. Christine, do you have a strong, I, I don't wanna get too off topic here, but I have to ask you this. Do you have a strong intuition in general or do you think it was just 'cause you guys are so connected or all of the

[00:39:12] Christine: I, I mean, I always, I like to think I'm intuitive, but that day was very weird when I think back about it, like even to the point, like I, I think they said he jumped around like 5 47 and I called him at 5 44 or something

[00:39:26] Maya: Oh my god, I have chills. That's

[00:39:28] Christine: and then,

[00:39:29] Maya: Whoa.

[00:39:30] Christine: and the time that I had. I texted my friend saying I need to leave because the sheriff, like, I feel like they're gonna come.

[00:39:37] I think he said he started coming at, he came every hour until someone was there and he started coming at seven 30 or something. And I think I left at like seven 20 something. So I had just missed him. And I had just said that to my friend too, because I just had that overwhelming feeling. Um, but I don't know.

[00:39:54] I, I don't, I don't know why I like, was sent those feelings because I wasn't able to do anything about it, unfortunately. But, um, whenever I think back on that day, I'm like, it was just so weird the way everything happened and just the feelings I was getting all day. But

[00:40:12] Maya: I am not a believer in coincidence. I think death does that to you. You know what I mean? And I just, when you're telling your story, I'm like blown away because like literally like you're following along intuitively with what happened and I, again, I'm so sorry that you lost your brother by suicide and his struggle and.

[00:40:33] It affects, it affects the whole family when you're going through mental health, when you have someone who's struggling with mental health and this whole as, as you're sharing so openly, but I'm really blown away by your intuition. So yes, I'm going to tell you that you're very intuitive, and I've shared this before too, but it, it blew me away in, in the loss of my brother because I was at dinner the night before and I looked at my then boyfriend and said, I need to call my brother.

[00:41:01] 'cause I hadn't seen him in a while. He had, you know, I just felt like he wasn't doing well. I'm like, I need to call him. He's like, okay, we'll call him tomorrow. And then I got the call the next day and that's why I wanted to ask you. I was like, there is a thing, there is such a thing when you are really connected to your sibling, you know, you just know it.

[00:41:18] Like things come up and so, That, that's just wow. Like to the, like in the timeline. I'm blown away by that, Christine. So, uh, tell us a little bit what it was, and, but I also wanna say this too. I, I connect with how you're, you're saying, well, you know, we are grateful or, you know, at least that they found him and, you know, you weren't sitting home and going, where is he?

[00:41:42] Where is he? And even though it's definitely not the outcome any of us want, um, I think you have a really just great way of saying, you know, I'm grateful for this part of this, but in such tragedy, you know, I, I never really like to say silver lining. 'cause there's not one, I mean, you've lost a sibling, right?

[00:42:03] You've lost your brother. I lost my brother, but, and you guys have lost siblings listening to this, I'm assuming. And. But sometimes when you reflect back, and I think your story is, is a great example of this, you can see where you're like, well, at least you know I got this part, but it's okay for us to say that.

[00:42:20] No one else can say that to us.

[00:42:22] Christine: Yeah,

[00:42:22] Maya: Just wanna add that you got, no one else can say that to us. We can say that, but I really commend you for saying that. So to, I mean, so now it's you and your mom and tell, tell me a little bit about what that was like afterwards. Tell us,

[00:42:36] Christine: yeah. Um, so it was horrible. Um, just in the sense that, I mean, I, I think you've touched on this a lot on your podcast, just it's very hard as a sibling to be able to grieve when you still have surviving parents because, I mean, my first, my first thought is obviously I like, was just in shock and just miss my brother.

[00:42:59] But then I have my mom who. Just is completely devastated, cannot cope. I was just more concerned about her. And at this time she was still battling cancer too, so it was just a lot that I was just nervous more for her than anything else. So I feel like my grieving was not able to start for a while after he passed.

[00:43:19] Um, so I kind of more went into like detective mode. Like I wanted to know everything on his last moments. Like I, we didn't have his phone obviously, but um, I like cracked every password he had. I went to every Google search he had, which, um, I saw like, I mean, he had up until like, I think when he was on the bridge, he was Googling, he jumped off the Bear Mountain Bridge.

[00:43:42] Um, and he was googling like Bear Mountain Bridge suicide, like bridge suicide, like all this stuff. And then when I was looking back months before, he had like been googling about suicides and stuff for almost like two full years. So it was something that clearly was on, it made me feel. Awful. But also at the same time I was like, this is clearly something that is, I don't think there's anything I could have done that would have ever been able to.

[00:44:10] It was just so ingrained in his brain at that point, and he was clearly just so depressed and as much as he could hide it from other people, and like I did know he was depressed and stuff and it wasn't hidden from me. I, that extent of it, like of it being as real as it was, um, I don't think it hit me until I saw all those Google searches and everything, but it did take a little bit of weight off because I was like, okay, this is something he's been thinking about.

[00:44:33] Which again, I knew, but it wasn't just one trigger that this happened. Like his fight with his girlfriend, I think weighed on my mom's. Like had a lot, she was like, it's her fault at first. And um, I never really felt that way. I was the one that told her, like, my brother's girlfriend, like I called her that night and waited obviously until she was like with her parents and stuff.

[00:44:54] But I, I didn't have any resentment towards her because I just, I feel like my brother has always been like, we were just waiting for that one trigger basically. Like, it's not like he had just been firing blanks for so many years. And we were lucky enough that, you know, anytime he tried it, it didn't end up working, but it was just always a matter of what that final trigger would be.

[00:45:20] Not really a matter of if it was gonna happen or not. So, um, I don't know. It was just, it was a lot just like uncovering a lot of stuff and then I had to obviously like go pick up his car from the bridge and just different things like that that you don't even think of, like. When I got to pick up his car and they charged me for the to, and I was like, wait, what?

[00:45:40] My brother just died. But you don't like, it doesn't matter to the rest of the world, you know? So,

[00:45:45] Maya: The world keeps going on and you're like, how dare you? How dare you? Are you kidding me? Like what?

[00:45:50] Christine: So little things like that, I'm like, wait, what? But, um, it was, it was hard. It was definitely a hard few weeks and obviously like years after, but definitely the first few weeks was just hard just with all, I think with a suicide death, it's just very different with the guilt you feel and just every conversation you go through and every what if, and you know, like with my dad, it was a sudden death, so it was different.

[00:46:12] I never had those feelings. Like, I had little things like, oh, I wish we didn't fight about whatever. But it wasn't any of those. Could I have stopped it because I knew I couldn't. He had a heart attack. It was what it was. Whereas like my brother, I was the last person to see him. I was the last person to even talk to him on the phone, like everything was.

[00:46:33] Me it felt like at that point, and I just felt very responsible. Um, which I've since let go of all that, but the first, like, when it first happened, it was just hard, just feeling kind of that burden. But

[00:46:48] Maya: Of, well, of course, and I'm sure a, a lot of people listening can understand, relate, especially if they lost a sibling by suicide, because there are totally different feelings that all of us feel, and they are based on how we lose our sibling. And I never like to say this is worse or, you know, diminish one thing or another.

[00:47:09] But you are absolutely right. There's a whole other, you know, side of things that happen depending on the loss and with, with suicide. Those what ifs. Oh man. I mean, it is so tough. So thank you for sharing that. And I, you remind me of myself 'cause I went on a detective journey myself too, but in a different way.

[00:47:30] Right. And I can definitely understand and empathize why you would be like, okay, I need to go through the Google search. I need to, and I can understand why. Not, not necessarily it gave you, you know, relief but kind of helped you move forward in understanding like, okay, like I, I couldn't stop this. This is something he had been thinking of.

[00:47:52] Like, this is something, this is not something he just did on a whim one day. And that I'm sure helped you move forward to the point now where you're able to share so openly with us, right. Or what are like, that's a part of it. But what else kind of helped you, Christine? Because I think that. Is really hard, really hard losing a sibling by suicide.

[00:48:15] How do you move forward from the what ifs? What could I have done? How did you do that? Because part of it is, is you be becoming the detective and going into Google, and I I love that you shared that, but do, do you have any, anything else that really helped you get to this point where you're able to share so openly about your brother's death and, and how it happened?

[00:48:38] I mean, I'm, I mean, from 2018 to 2023, that's, I mean, that's pretty incredible. There's people that can't talk about it for their entire life.

[00:48:47] Christine: Yeah. Um, I think for me, I just had to realize. That I did the best I could with what I knew at the time and the tools that I had at the time. Like I think my mom and I like for a while were like, how could we have not stopped this? But I think we didn't realize how long we all also prolonged it. Like we had so many more years with him because we were able to kind of deter him, like from a lot of those calls that he gave us.

[00:49:18] Um, and I think it helps me too, to know that he was so comfortable talking to me. Like he knew he wasn't gonna get judgment for me. Like I don't, I'm at the point now where I don't think I was the issue. I don't think my mom was the issue. Like he always could come to us. He knew that. I think the issue unfortunately is that he just felt judged by the rest of the world.

[00:49:40] And I think that's just a men, like the issue that we have with mental health right now is that stigma that's there. And I think, I think if. He had felt more comfortable around other people expressing it. 'cause I mean, obviously I knew his struggles and people close to us knew his struggles, but people out in the everyday world didn't know anything.

[00:50:01] Like they were all shocked when it happened and texting me and calling us like, oh my God, we had no idea. And I feel like if he felt like he had those people or even his friends like to open up to and explain how he felt, he just would've been able to cope a little better. Like he, it's hard to have something like deal with something and just feel so isolated with it.

[00:50:24] And I think that just added so much to it. So I think for me, it just helped knowing that I was there as best I could. Obviously I look back now and there's so many things I wish I would've said or could have said differently, but I didn't know as much at the time. Like for me, I was also, I was dealing with a lot like with him, but also like with my mom and different things.

[00:50:43] And I was just trying to kind of get through every day as well. While also trying to help him. And I just, I don't know. You don't really know how to help someone, especially when they don't know how to help themselves. So the only thing you can do is just be there for them, which I do feel like I was always there for him and I, I know he knew that.

[00:51:01] Um, but I just wish things would change with other people and how mental health, because I do feel like that's issue.

[00:51:12] Maya: Yeah, that's where I was kind of leading us next, um, in our last couple minutes together, Christine, because, you know, bringing a, that's why it's so important people like yourself share stories like Peter's right. And, um, when you're ready, right, like you, you're ready to share it and we're opening up about it, but.

[00:51:33] It breaks my heart. The stigma that we have on mental health. It breaks my heart the stigma that we have on so many different things. You know, losing someone by suicide, there's a stigma to that. There should not be a stigma to that, but should is a very tricky word, you know? Um, there shouldn't be a stigma to, you know, anyone that's struggling with drug addiction, there shouldn't be a stigma.

[00:51:55] I mean, we can keep going down the list with all of these things, right? And the only way that we can change that is by sharing these stories so that people feel more comfortable opening up. And we erase the stigma as much as possible because, you know, it's, it's wild to me because some people don't wanna say how their sibling passed away because it's shameful to them.

[00:52:18] Or, um, when it involves these, you know, death by suicide, homicide, drugs, alcohol. These people in these situations, our siblings, right. That we've lost in these horrific ways we're struggling. Right. And I think it's really important that we bring awareness to it. And the only way we can do that, and the only way we can stomp the stigma is what I'd like to say is by just being open and vulnerable and honest about it.

[00:52:49] Christine: Yeah. I think for me too, watching, because obviously like I said, my mom was battling cancer and my brother was battling this mental health illness at the same time. And I just feel like people don't see that mental health is just a disease in the brain. Just as cancer is a disease of you know, whatever organ or blood or whatever it is.

[00:53:11] And people see those two things so differently and I, I get it 'cause I'm guilty of it at times too. Obviously I would get more frustrated with my brother when he was in his like doing something as opposed to my mom when she was feeling sick. But looking, looking back now, it's just crazy 'cause my mom was offered so much sympathy and everyone, which she should have obviously, but like everyone was constantly worrying about her.

[00:53:36] If she didn't feel like doing something for the day, people understood it. Whereas my brother constantly, like, people were questioning like what kind of treatment he was gonna do and like why wouldn't he get out of bed that day and just, Different things that he did and it was just, and no sym, like my brother didn't even feel comfortable, obviously even opening up to people.

[00:53:56] But even people that did know, like it was hard for them to provide that empathy to him. And whereas to my mom, it was no question every day like, constantly, how are you feeling? How are you doing? So just watching the two dynamics of that was just eyeopening to me of how different we really see mental health diseases compared to anything else that you can physically see.

[00:54:17] So I think that was hard, but um, I hope that changes somehow.

[00:54:25] Maya: Well, it starts with us, right? And sharing these stories and it starts with you, right? You are sharing that. And I think what you just said is so powerful, Christine, that you know, your, your mom people knew she was battling cancer. And there's empathy, there's sympathy. There's like, oh my gosh, oh gosh, you wanna stay at home, you wanna stay in bed.

[00:54:45] And that's absolutely what we want. We want empathy and love and sympathy in the world for people that are going through difficulties. But just because you can't see it or it hasn't been, you know, perfectly diagnosed or it's something that we're learning more about, we the empathy and the sympathy, it's very real.

[00:55:04] Clearly Peter was struggling, clearly Peter was, was going mental health, that's illness too. That's an illness. Right? And I think. Sometimes it's, it's difficult for people because they wanna define it and they're like, well, I know someone who's depressed and you know they got on Zoloft and now they feel better.

[00:55:24] Well, great. Like I know people that have done chemo and gone through radiation and survived cancer. How is that

[00:55:33] Christine: Yeah.

[00:55:34] Maya: it? We've seen it as different. I understand that it is different, but it's not different at the same point because you are struggling with an illness. And I think being really open about it and bringing more awareness to it, just sharing so much about how Peter struggled and this was not his first attempt, I think.

[00:55:57] And I hope it's eye-opening for people. What advice would you give Christine to our amazing siblings that are listening that have lost a sibling by suicide? What's, what's a piece of advice that you would give? Because I feel like you're just a wealth of knowledge. We could probably talk about this for another hour, to be honest, but you've come a long way, you know, from your detective days and your what ifs, and like, I feel like you're always gonna feel some of that.

[00:56:23] But you've e you've evolved and you've moved forward in your grief journey and you're always gonna carry your brother with you, of course. But what's some advice that you can give? 'cause I don't have this experience, right? And you do, and I really value you sharing this. What's some advice you would give, even going back to yourself if you could talk to yourself back in 2018?

[00:56:41] Right? Yeah.

[00:56:43] Christine: Um, I would, I mean, if I'm talking to myself, I would just tell myself not to be so hard on myself. 'cause again, it's the immediate thought you have when it's a suicide or, or something that seems, you know, preventable or is to blame yourself and to start thinking that. And I just think you need to realize that the relationship that you had with the person, whether or not it was good or bad, but there's things that you definitely contributed to keeping them alive longer.

[00:57:14] And it, I mean, unfortunately, they're always gonna find that trigger that's gonna send them. It's not, I don't know, it just, it's not on you, is what I can say. But

[00:57:29] Maya: No, I think, I think that's great advice, because I think that's our natural reaction, right? Uh, when losing a sibling by suicide is, you know, what could I have done? What could I, and you've expressed that throughout this entire episode, and I think when you're able to release that, it's, it was, it's, it was probably life changing for you, right?

[00:57:50] When you were able to release that and realizing that there's nothing you could have done and, you know, we, we don't know, you know, that we're gonna lose our sibling, like this is more generalized, so of course we're gonna have regrets. We're like, oh, I wish I didn't talk to him like that, or her like that, you know, and things like that.

[00:58:07] I think losing a sibling by suicide, that gets very exasperated. Wouldn't you agree? From your experience? Yeah.

[00:58:16] Christine: And I think also I realized, and I remember, I think my mom had told me this actually when my dad had passed, but when I was just kind of dealing with a lot of that guilt and struggling with that, and she was like, what if you twisted? Like what if God forbid, like something had happened to. And it was my dad or my brother still alive.

[00:58:35] Like I wouldn't want to be watching, like looking down on them, having all those thoughts of guilt and stuff. And I'm sure my brother, even though there's things I wish I could have said, I'm sure if I was the one who had passed and my brother was here, he would be thinking of all the stuff he put me through and all that.

[00:58:50] And I wouldn't want that for him either. Like I, it's just, there's gonna be guilt no matter what. And you just have to be able to release that and realize that you did the best you could at that time. And obviously now I know so much more about mental health than I did back then, and I feel like it is a lot more prevalent in the world, which I am happy about.

[00:59:08] I wish it was a little more prevalent in 2018, which I don't feel like it, it was as open of a topic. Um, or

[00:59:15] Maya: I agree. I agree. The pandemic changed, changed a lot of things for us and that's one of the pots, that's when it's okay to see a silver lining because the pandemic did have that silver lining where it did bring mental health out. But you, you know, you lost your brother before the pandemic and it was a, it you are right.

[00:59:30] In 2018, I did not feel like I could share with people that I took antidepressants or that I, I mean, and that's, that's just. Me dealing with, you know, P T S D from my brother's death. I can't imagine what it was like, you know, for your brother who Peter struggling at that level. My heart just goes out to him watching out at us, hopefully while we do this.

[00:59:53] Yeah. Any, anything else you wanna add, Christine, before we wrap up again, I thank you so much for sharing your story and Peter's story and your family's story with us. It's been amazing. Thank you.

[01:00:04] Christine: Um, no, I just, I hope people know mental health does not define the person. Like my brother was an amazing person. I love spending every second, oh, not every second, but most seconds with him. We obviously knew how to push each other's buttons. Um, but I just hope to be able to let everyone know that, I mean, he mattered.

[01:00:28] And, um, yeah, that's it. I just, I just don't want people to think that like the way someone dies defines how they lived. So,

[01:00:38] Maya: So beautiful and so, so true. There's no shame in in sharing your story, regardless of how your sibling passed away. And I just love that. I think that's a beautiful, beautiful sentiment. And yeah, it doesn't define them. It doesn't define them, and it's not who they are. And I I love that. Christine. Christine, if people wanna connect with you for more support because you are so open about the loss of your brother Peter, by suicide, how can they connect with you?

[01:01:03] How are you comfortable with us sharing?

[01:01:06] Christine: Um, I have my Instagram, I believe it's Christine B with two E's 33.

[01:01:14] Maya: Fabulous.

[01:01:15] Christine: yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

[01:01:18] Maya: Fabulous. We'll tag that in the show notes. Christine, I again, wanna thank you so much for sharing your story, sharing Peter's story, your family's story. I know this is gonna help so many of our siblings out there, um, who've lost a sibling by suicide, so thank you.

[01:01:33] Christine: Well, thank you so much for having me and letting me share his story. Appreciate it.

[01:01:36] Maya: My, my pleasure and thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast.

[01:01:43] Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings Podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

[01:02:13] And don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms. We're on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Surviving Siblings Podcast. All links can be found in the show notes, so be sure to check those out too. Thank you again for the support. Until the next episode, keep on surviving my surviving siblings.